16: From 20-Year Art Hiatus to Creative Success with Steven Light aka SLART
What if the key to reigniting your creativity wasn't just talent, but embracing fear, experimentation, and community?
Steven Light, known as SLART, walked away from art for two decades. A single blog post reignited his passion, sparking a journey of artistic self-discovery, personal branding, and creative business growth.
Now, he's sharing the lessons he's learned about self-publishing, collaboration, and balancing art with commerce while navigating social anxiety and the ever-evolving role of technology in creativity.
From Creative Hiatus to Artistic Revival
After 20 years away from art, SLART found his way back through an unexpected spark of inspiration. His journey proves that creativity never truly disappears it just waits for the right moment to resurface.
"I just bought some pen and ink from Amazon." A simple act that reopened the door to artistic expression and self-discovery.
That return to creativity wasn't just about making art again. It was about finding new ways to navigate the challenges of an art career mentorship, community, and financial sustainability.
Actionable Insight: Creativity is always there. If you've stepped away, find a small action today to reignite it.
Bonus: Set aside 15 minutes to explore an old passion without judgment.
The Art of Balancing Creativity and Commerce
Making art is one thing. Making a living from it? That's a whole different challenge. SLART has wrestled with the tension between creative expression and financial stability, finding ways to sustain his work without compromising his vision.
"It's a real internal struggle." Every artist faces the push-and-pull of passion vs. profitability.
The solution? Diversifying income streams, building an engaged audience, and treating art like a business without losing the love for it.
Actionable Insight: Think beyond galleries explore self-publishing, commissions, or digital products as income streams.
Bonus: Identify one new way to monetize your art without sacrificing creativity.
The Power of Mentorship and Community
Success in the creative world doesn't happen in isolation. SLART credits much of his growth to mentorship and surrounding himself with like-minded artists.
"We're not alone as artists."
By seeking guidance and supporting others, artists can build momentum, stay motivated, and expand their opportunities. Whether through formal mentorship or organic connections, having a creative community makes the journey more fulfilling.
Actionable Insight: Reach out to one fellow artist today whether for advice, collaboration, or just to connect.
Bonus: Join an online or local artist community to surround yourself with creative energy.
Experimentation, Technology & The Role of AI in Art
AI is shaking up the creative world. Some fear it, some embrace it but SLART believes it's just another tool in an artist's arsenal.
"There's no rules in art."
The key? Use technology to enhance your creative process rather than replace it. Experiment, adapt, and stay ahead of the curve.
"We need to embrace AI."
Whether it's automation, digital tools, or new ways of reaching audiences, technology can empower artists rather than hinder them.
Actionable Insight: Try a new creative tool or technique this week whether AI-powered or not.
Bonus: Research an artist who's successfully integrated technology into their work.
Key Takeaways
- Creativity never dies it just waits for the right spark.
- Balancing art and commerce is possible with the right mindset.
- Community and mentorship make the artist's journey easier.
- Technology is a tool use it to your advantage.
- Putting your work out there opens unexpected doors.
Ready to Take Your Art to the Next Level?
SLART's journey proves that artistic growth isn't about waiting for the perfect moment it's about taking action, experimenting, and embracing the process.
If you're looking for ways to grow your creative business and build a sustainable art career, start today.
Want help navigating your own creative path? Book a free strategy session at TheStandoutCreatives.com.
Spots are limited, so grab yours before they fill up!
Transcript
That's just made me realize that A, we're not alone as artists and B, when you stop thinking about yourself and you, you open things up in a collaborative way.
Speaker A:It works so much better because you're.
Speaker A:You're lifting everyone up rather than trying to further your own agenda.
Speaker A:Which is fine.
Speaker A:There's nothing wrong with trying to get somewhere yourself.
Speaker A:But every time I seem to try and get somewhere myself, compared to where we do something collaborative, the collaborative flows a lot easier and it grows a lot quicker.
Speaker B:Welcome to the Standout Creatives, where making money and creating meaningful work go hand in hand.
Speaker B:You're already passionate about what you create.
Speaker B:Now let's turn that passion into a standout business.
Speaker B:Marketing your work doesn't have to be overwhelming.
Speaker B:It can actually amplify your creativity.
Speaker B:I'm your guide, Kevin Chung, and this podcast is your roadmap to creative business success.
Speaker B:I'll show you how to turn your unique talents into a business that truly represents who you are.
Speaker B:Let's get started.
Speaker B:What if getting your creative spark back wasn't just about picking up a pen, but about turning a 20 year break into a whole new chapter?
Speaker B:Meet Steven Light, AKA Slark.
Speaker B:He didn't just come back to art.
Speaker B:He turned his hiatus into fresh, authentic creative journey.
Speaker B:After two decades off, he found the courage to return and build something that works for him.
Speaker B:In this episode, we talked about how Slart turned fear into fuel, challenges into wins, and realized creativity doesn't have a finish line.
Speaker B:It's a messy, wild ride that never stops.
Speaker B:If you've ever felt stuck or disconnected from your creative self, this one's for you.
Speaker B:It's not just inspiring, it's a roadmap for kicking off your creative comeback.
Speaker B:Now on to the episode.
Speaker B:Welcome to another episode of the Standout Creatives Today on Steven Light.
Speaker B:Also known as Slart.
Speaker B:He is an outsider artist, muralist and all around creative rebel, and the author of Art Life and Creativity.
Speaker B:His raw, expressive work dives deep into human struggles, nostalgia and the beauty of imperfection.
Speaker B: om art, he picked up a pen in: Speaker B:That's awesome.
Speaker B:Slark, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and how you got into the work you're doing?
Speaker A:Thank you for the intro, Kevin.
Speaker A:It makes me sound really professional.
Speaker A:It was a brilliant intro.
Speaker A:So yeah, it was.
Speaker A:It was quite interesting how I got back into art again.
Speaker A:So it was from the Impetus was from a guy called Thomas J.
Speaker A:Bevin and he's on, he's actually on Substack.
Speaker A:He got me into Substack.
Speaker A:We'll talk about that later.
Speaker A:And I read one of his blog posts and it was talking about being a autodidactic, basically a self learner.
Speaker A:And he asked three questions in his post and it said what did you like doing as a child?
Speaker A:What did people say you were good at as a child?
Speaker A:And what did you spend most of your time doing as a child?
Speaker A:And it was clear to me what I did.
Speaker A:I either played video games or I was drawing most of the time.
Speaker A:And then I thought to myself, I don't really want to.
Speaker A:I know nowadays you can pursue a career in E gaming and stuff like that, but I didn't feel like I wanted to spend a lot of time in video games.
Speaker A:So I thought I used to do drawing.
Speaker A:People said I was good at drawing and yeah, I used to spend all my time doing it.
Speaker A:So I, after I read his post I just, I bought a.
Speaker A:Bought some pen and ink from Amazon and started drawing again.
Speaker A:Drew I think it was eight different black and white sketches of my dog.
Speaker A:And it was weird when I first started drawing I was like.
Speaker A:Felt really uncomfortable.
Speaker A:It was like self judgment and is this any good?
Speaker A:Oh, I haven't done it for 20 years.
Speaker A:I'm gonna be rubbish.
Speaker A:But after I started drawing I was getting back into the flow of it quite quickly and really enjoyed it.
Speaker A:And I just really cherish those drawings now.
Speaker A:They're.
Speaker A:They're the gateway back into me getting back into art again.
Speaker A:So that, that's how it all started.
Speaker A:Do you want me to carry on with how I got to now or did you want to ask anything around that?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What were you doing between the pause like you were.
Speaker B:I guess you said you had done art classes early on in your life and then you had that 20 year break.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker A:So I did.
Speaker A:I dropped out when I was 17.
Speaker A:My art class and then took a year out.
Speaker A:I was too nervous to go to university.
Speaker A:I had quite bad social anxiety then.
Speaker A:So the idea of going, moving away, meeting new people just terrified me.
Speaker A:So what I did, I went to my local college and studied multimedia.
Speaker A:So that was like web design, graphic design, video editing, some audio stuff as well.
Speaker A:So it gave me a kind of overview of early digital stuff.
Speaker A: This was back in God: Speaker A:And I thought to myself going into digital would be more pragmatic than being an artist.
Speaker A:I didn't believe or anyone.
Speaker A:There was no one around me who could tell me that art was a valid career.
Speaker A:So I just decided to go in into web design.
Speaker A:So I did that, finished college, struggled my way finding some kind of contract work, did freelance for quite a few years and then I actually got into.
Speaker A:Because I had social anxiety when I was younger, I set up support groups for people with social anxiety.
Speaker A:We did public speaking, we did all sorts of different, different trips out in London.
Speaker A:Have you heard of meetup.com I set up a meetup.com group and it became the biggest.
Speaker A:I think it was one of the biggest in the world.
Speaker A:And that was just through me getting out of my comfort zone and setting that up.
Speaker A:And then that's still running now, someone else has took that over and then for the past eight years I've been working full time as well for a company doing all sorts of different web and optimization stuff.
Speaker A:So yeah, it's been.
Speaker A:Since.
Speaker A: When was it: Speaker A:And it's been.
Speaker A:I've been building things up since then.
Speaker A:I've averaged five exhibitions a year whilst working full time.
Speaker A:So that's where my passion lies and it's going in that direction now.
Speaker A:This is where I'm planning to move into, transition into that.
Speaker B:Very cool.
Speaker B:Did you.
Speaker B:When did you stop.
Speaker B:Did you stop drawing altogether or did you still dabble with art a little bit while you were in this period or you just completely, just gave it up in favor of the digital?
Speaker A:I didn't do anything at all, actually.
Speaker A:I remember.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:I drew one picture and then didn't think it was very good and then I didn't do anything else since, so no, I didn't do anything.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's really strange because I still had creative outlets.
Speaker A:I was doing stuff, the web, doing video editing and bits and pieces, but no, no actual drawing.
Speaker A:Like once out of 20 years, I'd say it's quite a long time when I say it out loud actually.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's kind of interesting.
Speaker B:Did you want to be an artist when you were like a child or.
Speaker A:I wanted to be a video game designer specifically.
Speaker A:But all I knew as a child, I really loved drawing but there was no, like I say, role models around me who could say, oh, you could do that as a job.
Speaker A:It's quite sad about that.
Speaker A:In the art world, you don't.
Speaker A:Children are not generally encouraged to become artists.
Speaker A:You'll be told that your drawing is good, but no one kind of encourages in that direction.
Speaker A:So I drew a lot of video game covers when I was a kid for Nintendo.
Speaker A:I was just making these games up with friends and I kind of thought it'd go in that direction.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Since then, really being around more artists and having a studio and looking up to mentors, it's like it is actually.
Speaker A:It's a valid, valid profession, especially in the digital age.
Speaker A:You can, as you know, you help people get their work out there.
Speaker A:In some ways, it's a lot easier and it's a lot harder because there's.
Speaker A:There's so much information, there's so many platforms that.
Speaker B:Easier to get it out, but harder to get noticed.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:I did have a question about.
Speaker B:Not a question, but the idea of people really, really enjoying art throughout their entire lives.
Speaker B:We all enjoy pieces of art, whether that's, you know, books or movies or games or any of that stuff.
Speaker B:But we're still not encouraged to.
Speaker B:To take that on as a career, which is a very interesting idea.
Speaker B:I don't know where the idea came from that you can't, because we're all constantly consuming things that are considered like art.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's really interesting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because we all, like.
Speaker A:You say, watch films, but you don't have a parent generally who says, you could go and make a film if you want.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You just believe, well, I can possibly do that, but you can.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's why we need to support younger people, mentor them and just explain that it's a valid, valid path if you want to take it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I like to.
Speaker A:Not to downplay any kind of surgeons or doctors, but I think I posted a meme on Instagram a few months ago and it said it was implying that becoming an artist is a lot harder than becoming a surgeon, because.
Speaker A:Not that I could become a surgeon, but there's a clear path, isn't there?
Speaker A:You study for a certain amount of time, you pass certain exams, and you.
Speaker A:There's a clear pathway on how to get there, but there's not that for an artist.
Speaker A:You go to art school and then you might get supported in your graduation exhibitions and stuff, but there's no clear path on how to make a profession out of that or get hired.
Speaker A:So I mean it in that respect.
Speaker A:I don't mean any disrespect to surgeons or doctors, but there's definitely a clear path on how to do that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What the interesting thing is back in, I don't know, hundreds of years Ago people had the apprentice and master format, which is how like things get passed down from generation to generation.
Speaker B:I think it probably started right around the Industrial revolution is my guess, where that relationship no longer existed because people are just going out into factories and finding like mass, like things like, I don't know, whatever we have in the world, there's a role for that.
Speaker B:Instead of having like this one on one relationship or one on many relationship with some sort of teacher, you just gotta figure it out because it's not something that people consider like a great career.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker A:That's just made me think.
Speaker A:It's like you get art teachers who are teaching children how to do art and all the techniques or whatever, but there's, there's no.
Speaker A:It seems rare that you'll get a, an artist who's making money who is taking on a young person to go and do that.
Speaker A:You might get a studio assistant, but I don't know, it's just given me kind of the idea in the back of my mind, how could we create something like that?
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker B:Yeah, go back to the way.
Speaker A:Yeah, because if you've done it then you'll want to pass it on to someone else generally.
Speaker A:Not for, not everyone, I guess, but I kind of feel that way.
Speaker A:I would have loved to have the support when I was younger and if I can support someone else, it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, I feel like it's in my obligation to do so.
Speaker B:That's one common theme talking to a bunch of creative people is that there's no guidance.
Speaker B:There could be guidance, but usually it's very difficult to find guidance in whatever creative pursuit you want.
Speaker B:Unless you're into like an organization or something, you know, where, where you're needed for your creativity, but not for your own sake, but for the sake of whatever the company is.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, you, the person is supporting the company rather than the other way around.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:And it's almost.
Speaker A:They're using the young person in a lot of internships for either free or cheaper labour, which is rubbish really, because a lot of younger people feel like they have to do that to get ahead.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:And if you don't have experience, you can't get a job.
Speaker A:So you have to take this kind of free internship, which is.
Speaker A:Yeah, it shouldn't be like that really.
Speaker A:You're still, you're working, you should get paid.
Speaker B:Um, yeah, I think, I mean, obviously as artists, a lot of artists look at capitalism as like one of the things that has kind of made becoming an artist difficult because everybody is going to just try to generate the most money that you possibly can.
Speaker B:And that doesn't really line up with the idea of creating something like personal or, you know, interesting for yourself.
Speaker B:It's like you still have to survive, obviously.
Speaker B:So that's why we do work that we don't necessarily want to do.
Speaker B:But the creative outlet is a difficult way to generate that, Even though that is the way that you need to approach it.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's a real internal struggle.
Speaker A:I know some artists who really wouldn't sell any of their work and they're okay doing it in their spare time.
Speaker A:Some people are totally against capitalism.
Speaker A:I've kind of found a happy medium now.
Speaker A:Yeah, I.
Speaker A:I'm okay with.
Speaker A:With selling my art and I don't feel like I'm not really into doing commissions because it kind of feels.
Speaker A:Feels like you have to do it in a certain way for someone.
Speaker A:But I would rather create what I feel compelled to create and then put that out there in the world for someone to buy it.
Speaker A:And part of that is I enjoy setting up my own exhibitions.
Speaker A:I try not to rely on other people to.
Speaker A:Or galleries.
Speaker A:I've contacted a lot of galleries before, but there's so many other people contacting them.
Speaker A:So I really enjoy setting up events and setting up my own exhibitions and then making a real lovely atmosphere out of it and creating that environment where people want to come and buy my work and see my work and meet me in person.
Speaker A:And I find that really satisfying more than prints to people I don't know.
Speaker A:It's nice having that relationship and a real connection with people.
Speaker A:An example of that.
Speaker A: I set up an exhibition in: Speaker A:I had a little exhibition in a cafe and quite a few of the pieces sold.
Speaker A:And then this particular guy, I didn't know who bought the pieces then.
Speaker A:And then the guy came along to the exhibition and met me and I just felt so grateful for that.
Speaker A:I was blown away that this guy bought my work and then he took the time to find out who I was and then came along to the exhibition.
Speaker A:I don't take anything like that for granted.
Speaker A:And I think artists should be okay with selling their work.
Speaker A:You don't have to sell all your work and you just have to find the happy balance with creating what you want to create and finding a way to sell it.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's.
Speaker A:It can be.
Speaker A:It can be quite tough, especially when you've Got so many inner conflicts.
Speaker A:Whether your work is any good or if no one buys it for a while, you kind of have self doubts whether it's.
Speaker A:Whether it's good as well.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:It's a constant internal battle as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think just be comfortable with the idea of selling.
Speaker A:That's okay.
Speaker B:Be comfortable with the idea of selling, especially since it allows you to create more.
Speaker B:So if you don't make money, it's hard to justify continuing to try to get yourself out there.
Speaker B:But so you need in order to do that to become more recognized, sell more, Be comfortable with selling so that way you can continue to create and feed yourself with your art.
Speaker B:Not necessarily that you need to, but that if you want it to get to more people and have them be changed by your work, then you need to be comfortable with that idea.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Yeah, I.
Speaker A:I feel quite blessed that I am.
Speaker A:I've been able to support myself through my day job for now because all the art I've created is.
Speaker A:There hasn't been any pressure and I want to get to the stage.
Speaker A:I don't want to be reliant on the income from my art.
Speaker A:So I want, I want to have other, other income streams as well.
Speaker A:So it's not just if I don't sell X amount of pieces this month, then I can't support myself.
Speaker A:So there's, there's the book, as you mentioned, I haven't marketed it that much since it came out, but that's the plan.
Speaker A:And I've got some other books in the pipeline.
Speaker A:I've actually created some colouring books out of my artwork, which I thought was quite a fun idea.
Speaker A:So I figured out how to self publish and it's like with anything you've said before on your other podcasts.
Speaker A:Like I listened to one of yours today and you're saying when you're doing your solo podcast, it feels a bit uncomfortable at first, doesn't it?
Speaker A:And then you get used to it and things get a lot easier.
Speaker A:And with.
Speaker A:Yeah, with the self publishing, I think it took me a couple of years to publish my book.
Speaker A: g lockdown and I think it was: Speaker A:So I got a load of my artwork and then formatted it into a book with inspirational quotes which I felt matched my artwork.
Speaker A:So it's kind of a contemplative book where it's not a kind of read from the start to the end book.
Speaker A:You could pick it up from anywhere, open a page and take in the artwork and then read the quotes and then I finished it and then I.
Speaker A:I had massive self doubts.
Speaker A:I was like, I can't publish this, it's rubbish.
Speaker A:So I left it for a couple of years and then it was after my.
Speaker A: My kidney transplant in July: Speaker A:And then did the final changes to it and then just got it out there and I thought I've got nothing to lose.
Speaker A:I just put it out there.
Speaker A:So I've sold some copies and I've had.
Speaker A:Had some personal feedback which was nice.
Speaker A:So I had an open studio event.
Speaker A:I had some copies for sale there and there was this guy who was a lawyer.
Speaker A:He bought a copy and then he went out and he read.
Speaker A:He read through the whole book and had a cup of coffee and he took his time to actually come back in and tell me how much he loved the book, which I thought was lovely.
Speaker A:He didn't have to come back in, but he did he come back in and said I really enjoyed that.
Speaker A:I just sat outside, had a coffee, read through and had a look at your artwork.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:That's exactly what that was my intention for people to kind of like a meditative book just to.
Speaker A:Not to rush for it, just to contemplate and read the quotes and look at the artwork and take your time really.
Speaker A:So yeah, that's what I was saying that having other income streams like books and selling art prints specifically.
Speaker A:So I've tried different ways of printing and shipping art prints.
Speaker A:So I want to try to do some more drop shipping like print on demand stuff so I can focus on the marketing side and then get that, get those sent out.
Speaker A:So that'll be another income stream.
Speaker A:And then I might be open to commissions in the future.
Speaker A:If I want to word it in a way that people understand that what they request will be in my style, it's not.
Speaker A:Sorry, I got a bit of a cold.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:If people do request commissions.
Speaker A:I was talking about it with another friend.
Speaker A:She was saying as long as people know that it's going to be in my style.
Speaker A:Because like a lot of people think if you hire an artist it's going to be in a certain way and it's going to be like a realistic picture, if that makes sense.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:There's a conception in with people, it's a bit of a generalization.
Speaker A:But if you speak to just a random person on the street and you show them a piece of realistic artwork like hyper realism, it Looks almost like a photo.
Speaker A:They will class that as good art, if that makes sense.
Speaker A:If you don't know much about art, you'll see that and you think, oh, that's good because it's realistic.
Speaker A:But that's not my style.
Speaker A:So just for me to be clear with that, and it takes the pressure off me and the relationship with the person getting the commission from me, that it's in my style, if that makes sense.
Speaker A:And I would feel more comfortable doing that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I think as an artist in this day and age, you have to mix it up a bit, have different income streams, have.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Just not rely on one thing.
Speaker A:And you have to be a promoter, a marketer and do a lot yourself, which sadly a lot of artists don't.
Speaker A:Don't really like doing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was just seeing if you had more to say, I think.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think that your point to having multiple income streams is like one of the most important things for any creative person to have, because then you don't have to rely on any single way to continue to.
Speaker B:To feed your creativity.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:You don't have to always look to be in a gallery.
Speaker B:I think that's one of the things that people think artists should do and that's the only way they.
Speaker B:They need to make money is to be in a gallery.
Speaker B:But there's an infinite number of ways that you can make money from your art.
Speaker B:So it's like thinking outside of the strict idea that the gallery is the thing.
Speaker B:I think that's probably something that our galleries forced onto people.
Speaker B:The idea that you need to have your stuff in a gallery to be, like, legitimate, even though that's not really the case.
Speaker A:No, that's so true.
Speaker A:I went through that phase myself.
Speaker A:I was contacting a lot of galleries, hearing nothing and feeling quite dejected about it and feeling like I need to be represented by a gallery to be a real artist.
Speaker A:That's not true.
Speaker A:You can have your own platform on social media or substack or anywhere and build your own audience of people.
Speaker A:There seems to be a lot of pressure of getting huge audiences, but you just need a small, dedicated audience, really, don't you?
Speaker A:And just say for artists not to lose sight of that.
Speaker A:Even in your local community, people forget that there's people close to them.
Speaker A:There's an abstract idea that you're.
Speaker A:You're going to be like social media famous and get loads of people admiring you.
Speaker A:But even if that happened, that's not going to fulfill any artist, really.
Speaker A:You just.
Speaker A:All artists want to do is create their work and make money from it.
Speaker A:The whole.
Speaker A:Having millions of followers doesn't.
Speaker A:Doesn't really make a difference.
Speaker A:I know I can't say that from.
Speaker A:Because I haven't got millions of followers, but still, I know that at points where I've had a lot of admiration or a lot of interaction with my posts or whatever, it doesn't.
Speaker A:It's nice, but it's not.
Speaker A:It doesn't beat the feeling of me actually painting or losing myself in my art.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:It's nowhere near the same as that.
Speaker A:We need to go back to that basic fact that that's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Not lose sight of that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B: mention Kevin Kelly's idea of: Speaker B:And that's the idea that instead of trying to get millions of people to like your stuff who are tepid about it, you know, they like your work, but they're not, like, super passionate about it, it's better to have the core group of people who are, like, really passionate about what you're doing and how it makes them feel.
Speaker B:And, you know, the connection that you have between you and the person that buys your art.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It reminds.
Speaker A:Well, I was just thinking on.
Speaker A:On Instagram of.
Speaker A:I think I've got nearly 6,000 followers, but there's hardly any interaction on it.
Speaker A:But on Subsec, I've got about 730, and there's so much more interaction and it's.
Speaker A:It's much more.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's much more enjoyable connecting with that community.
Speaker A:Not to say there's anything wrong with Instagram community, but it's just.
Speaker A:It seems that not many people see.
Speaker A:See my posts on there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think the way that Instagram used to work is the people that you are following, you would see them all the time, which is why you would get a lot of interaction in the beginning.
Speaker B:And then I guess, Meta took over it and they kind of just changed it so that now that they have all these people, they can just charge people to get in front of people.
Speaker B:And if you don't pay for that, you're not going to get seen that much.
Speaker B:It's like you have to be willing to.
Speaker B:To know where you want to put it.
Speaker B:And the fact that something like Substack, which we're both very big fans of at this moment, is a great place because you kind of get to control when people see it through the emails, and I think that's one of the biggest parts of it as well.
Speaker B:As you know, the note system.
Speaker A:Yeah, I keep, I do like liking notes again, but sometimes I get a bit fed up with it.
Speaker A:But the whole zine thing, it's really.
Speaker A:As you know, I just posted a note about zines.
Speaker A:I've got it here.
Speaker A:Actually.
Speaker A:I bought this zine a couple of weeks ago from Merette Birouk, who she's on Substack, but I think she left it now.
Speaker A:So she's left her posts on there, but she doesn't interact on there because she's a big advocate of being offline.
Speaker A:I really loved the idea of a zine and I was, I was like, I really want to make one for next year.
Speaker A:So I posted something on notes saying about I just wrote zine.
Speaker A:Zines.
Speaker A:I love zines.
Speaker A:Please show me more zines.
Speaker A:I didn't plan the comment, I just wrote something random.
Speaker A:Then there's thousands of people saw that and then commented and they said, oh yeah, that's a great idea.
Speaker A:I love zines.
Speaker A:Here's my zine.
Speaker A:And then that turned into a global collaboration and there's 130 people on there.
Speaker A:We're all creating one page each.
Speaker A:That's just made me realize that A, we're not alone as artists and B, when you stop thinking about yourself and you, you open things up in a collaborative way, it works so much better because you're, you're lifting everyone up rather than trying to further your own agenda.
Speaker A:Which is fine.
Speaker A:There's nothing wrong with trying to get somewhere yourself.
Speaker A:But every time I seem to try and get somewhere myself, compared to where we do something collaborative, the collaborative flows a lot easier and it grows a lot quicker.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's just, just attracted people all over the world and it's really look forward to seeing what happens with that.
Speaker A:So the deadline for that, as you know, was yesterday.
Speaker A:So we've got all the people involved and then we've got a zine librarian, which I didn't even know was a thing.
Speaker A:So she, I don't know specifically the ins and outs of the role, but she said she can get the, get the zine into libraries and like archived as an actual registered library book in America, which is mad.
Speaker A:And yeah, that's just gonna lift everyone involved, isn't it?
Speaker A:It's just the, a beautiful community thing that's gonna lift everyone involved and hopefully inspire everyone who reads it as well and just create.
Speaker A:Yeah, who knows what's gonna happen from that.
Speaker A:So I can't remember what my point was, but it was just with notes, it Seems to be pretty, pretty spot on in that respect.
Speaker A:When we're talking about zines, it seemed to draw everyone who was interested in that topic.
Speaker A:And I don't know exactly how that works on their algorithm, but it's restored my faith in substack notes again.
Speaker A:It seems to be connecting me with the right people.
Speaker A:So that's pretty cool.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think once you have a post that reaches a bunch of people, then you're like, okay, this is kind of the deal with it.
Speaker B:And if you continue to post into that idea, they'll continue to like get you in front of those same types of people.
Speaker B:Since it worked already, I think that's.
Speaker B:Yeah, probably some of what's going on there.
Speaker B:Can you talk a little bit about how you came up for the idea of this, like, global scene and like how you plan on essentially getting all the submissions, rounding everything up, you know, getting it ready for printing where.
Speaker B:How to print in all that kind of stuff?
Speaker A:Yeah, I can't even remember how the idea came about.
Speaker A:It was just.
Speaker A:It was from that post.
Speaker A:So when I saw a lot of interaction in that, I thought, why don't we set up something?
Speaker A:And then I quickly put the post together with the submission details and then I set these deadlines and they're just arbitrary deadlines.
Speaker A:All deadlines are really.
Speaker A:Aren't they?
Speaker A:They're just someone sets them.
Speaker A:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker A:It just kind of happened quite quickly.
Speaker A:So that when I posted that zine thing on notes, that was 29th of December, so it was like within a month, it's just gone from that little post to I think it's 130 people working together on this global project.
Speaker A:So the first step is to get everyone's entries together.
Speaker A:They're one page each, so that'll be roughly 65 pages in.
Speaker A:And in terms of production, I have to admit, I don't know exactly this is how these things unfold because we're working together, we'll figure.
Speaker A:Figure it out together.
Speaker A:But my initial idea was rather than printing it centrally, which will cost.
Speaker A:It won't cost loads because zines don't cost that much.
Speaker A:But if we maybe print a thousand copies and there's 65 pages each, that's still a fair bit of money for one person.
Speaker A:So each person prints out maybe 10 copies each and then post them to the buyers which are nearest to them, basically.
Speaker A:And then the idea of some kind of global auction where we all put our creative efforts into directing people to an auction where all of the copies are Sold in one date.
Speaker A:So there's a build up to that.
Speaker A:And then I don't know where this time capsule idea came about, but all these things came to me.
Speaker A:So to keep one copy each that we bury in our local area.
Speaker A:I have no idea where we're going to bury it or whatnot, but I just love the idea of all these people burying one copy of this scene in wherever they want to near to them, and then they're dug up in like a couple of hundred years or whatever.
Speaker A:And then all these.
Speaker A:Yeah, I just find that quite cool.
Speaker A:And I don't know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Where all these ideas came from.
Speaker A:But as creators, we don't always know.
Speaker A:We can't always take credit, can we?
Speaker A:It's just a melting pot of everything and inspirations and who you've spoken to, what you've read, what you've watched.
Speaker A:And from a higher power, whatever, we don't know.
Speaker A:So that's.
Speaker A:That's the rough plan along the way.
Speaker A:When I sent out the email to everyone today and I got a reply saying, let's have a zoom call with everyone, which would be quite chaotic.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:130 people trying to get everyone together at the same time will be hard as it is.
Speaker A:But maybe that will happen.
Speaker A:We'll see what happens with that.
Speaker A:But I'm quite loose about it.
Speaker A:I'm not a controlling person at all in terms of saying, we have to do this, this and this, and you have to do it this way.
Speaker A:Even the deadlines, they don't have to be super strict.
Speaker A:But I just wanted to put something there because as creatives, you'll feel delayed.
Speaker B:Forever if you don't put it.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:If I just said, oh, I'll take your time, and then, yeah, never get done.
Speaker A:So you've got about a month to do it, which is enough.
Speaker A:Enough time, I think, to do one page each.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I'm gonna document that on my substack as well.
Speaker A:So I think that's an interesting story, how this all unfolds, and really excited about where it goes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, yeah, that's about it, really.
Speaker A:On that.
Speaker B:I was reading Stephen King's On Writing, and one of the most interesting things that he said in the book was that his ideas just come out of thin air.
Speaker B:He's like, I can't make them, I can't generate them.
Speaker B:If I wanted to, they just come to me.
Speaker B:Which makes it both, like, frustrating and interesting because you can't.
Speaker B:Like, the creative gods or whatever you believe in don't work in the ways that you think they are, sometimes they just come to you because you've been gestating on different ideas your whole life.
Speaker B:Like you said, they'll just pop up randomly at the moment that you need them.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, it's amazing, isn't it?
Speaker A:Sometimes I feel a bit sketchy about saying about higher powers and stuff and I'm not particularly religious, but I'm quite spiritual and yeah, who really knows where these ideas come from.
Speaker A:A lot of the time the ego wants to say, this is my great idea.
Speaker A:But with this zine thing, I don't, I can't say, I don't feel like saying, oh, this is my great idea.
Speaker A:It's just something that came out of nowhere when I read those blog posts and bought, bought that zine and I just wanted to make my own zine.
Speaker A:And then all this, I guess what you focus on, you percolate in your mind and it, however that happens, it's transmuted into this whole thing.
Speaker B:So yeah, I don't remember where I heard this, but there's a book that said that all ideas are out there, they're just coming to you in this specific moment in time to happen.
Speaker B:So everything that's ever been like created or thought of has been in the world.
Speaker B:It just needs a vessel to come out.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I think this global zine idea is just something that needed to happen because I think the world is increasingly online, attached to our screens and this thing is like super like grassroots and it's not controlled by any single person.
Speaker B:It's like a global effort just to in this moment in time, provide the world with an interesting idea that maybe people will find in the future and be like, why are there so many of these everywhere?
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, no, that idea you said about all the ideas being out there, I've heard that before.
Speaker A:I can't remember who said it as well, but yeah, I don't know, I was thinking if I said about a global magazine, like an actual glossy magazine, it wouldn't have the same impact, would it?
Speaker A:Something about this do it yourself self printed idea that is very counterculture to the whole digital world and especially of AI Now I'm quite into AI myself, I'm quite a techie nerd.
Speaker A:But having this idea of a grassroots, as you said, is the best way to put it.
Speaker A:This attracted all these people not just because of the notes algorithm, it's because people are ready for this and people, yeah, people craving for it.
Speaker A:And I hope it has that same impact on the people who read it as well.
Speaker B:Sometimes ideas come too earlier or too late, but sometimes they come right on time.
Speaker B:So that's one thing about art.
Speaker B:Also, like, sometimes your thing didn't do well because it wasn't meant to do well at that time.
Speaker B:It's waiting for the right moment to, like, come out and like, be necessary for the world to see.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah, no, that's so true.
Speaker A:I can't remember what you said.
Speaker A:I was listening to your previous podcast with Bridget.
Speaker A:I forgot her surname and it reminded me of.
Speaker A:I can't remember what you said on there.
Speaker A:But as creatives, we have all these ideas and then often I feel bad because I haven't got around to doing this idea, but then it might be a few years later and then you've been thinking about that idea and it's just been in your subconscious and it comes out the right time and we have to be at peace with that.
Speaker A:We can't do everything at once anyway.
Speaker A:So you can give yourself permission to put it aside and if it's meant to come back out, it will come back out at the right time.
Speaker B:Usually, yeah, it's.
Speaker B:Sometimes you have to let things sit and they'll sit there for.
Speaker B:They could potentially sit there for years.
Speaker B:And then it's like if.
Speaker B:If it's good enough an idea and you're passionate enough about it, it'll just keep on popping up, popping up, popping up.
Speaker B:And that's when you need to do it, when it doesn't leave your head and you're like, okay, this has come back.
Speaker B:Like for the hundredth time, this is something I actually need to do right at this moment.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And I find you can't really force anything because it's.
Speaker A:Every time I've tried to force something out, it doesn't, it just doesn't really work.
Speaker A:And yeah, like you said, you just have to let it take its course and it will come out if it needs to.
Speaker B:One of the interesting ideas that we talked about earlier was your social anxiety and not wanting to be out there.
Speaker B:But then you had your exhibitions in like coffee shops and stuff where a lot of people were gonna come and see you.
Speaker B:So can you talk a little bit about maybe overcoming or maybe not overcoming, but, you know, dealing with the fact that you will need to interact with people if you want to be like an artist?
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I would say I'm a happy introvert now.
Speaker A:I'm self accepting, but the anxiety doesn't stop me from doing anything now.
Speaker A:So like I said before, I set up the meetup group and did a lot of things that are out of my comfort zone.
Speaker A:I run the groups myself, did public speaking courses, tried Toastmasters.
Speaker A:Have you heard of a coach named Michael Neal before?
Speaker A:He's quite, he's American, but he's quite big over here.
Speaker A:He did him and Paul McKenna, who's a hypnotist.
Speaker A: day course with them back in: Speaker A:I did it just to force myself to be with lots of people and it was really out of my comfort zone and really uncomfortable.
Speaker A:But the more I kind of exposed myself and did all these things, it became easier and I think over time I got to the stage where the anxiety didn't bother me socially.
Speaker A:Sometimes I still feel awkward, but it's not compared to when I was, I don't know, 18 or 20.
Speaker A:I'd drink a lot if we were going out to make myself feel comfortable and finding a job and stuff like that.
Speaker A:Even speaking to someone on the phone to speak about a job, I would get all tongue tied and it'd be really difficult and the idea of working in an office and having to have small talk with people felt impossible.
Speaker A:But moving back to now, when I had my first exhibition, this was just after I got my art studio.
Speaker A:So a bit, just briefly about my art studio.
Speaker A:It's in the centre of my town and it was an old post office.
Speaker A:So an artist collective took it over.
Speaker A:It was from the local government, they used to own the post office basically in this country.
Speaker A:So they didn't need the building, couldn't use the buildings, they let the artists use it and just pay the electricity and stuff.
Speaker A:So I got this studio that I share with.
Speaker A:I think there's about 20 other artists in there.
Speaker A:So I had my first exhibition there and that felt very uncomfortable, very vulnerable, having my work out there in the public.
Speaker A:But then after, like you said, you keep doing something, it becomes a lot easier.
Speaker A: olo exhibition I set about in: Speaker A:I think there was about 60 people who turned up and it was a really nice event.
Speaker A:I have this piece where I painted myself nude, a big blue picture.
Speaker A:It's about four foot by three foot and I had that in there and I had some family members there as well and all my friends and I didn't give a shit about it.
Speaker A:I wasn't embarrassed at all, which amazing.
Speaker A:And I just got comfortable about it.
Speaker A:So yeah, the more I've done exhibitions and I've got More comfortable.
Speaker A:But one thing I sometimes struggle with, if I'm with certain types of people in the art world, I feel like I have to speak in a certain way and I get a bit panicky.
Speaker A:Like if someone starts talking about a particular artist and I don't know who they are, I feel like I should know every artist and everything about their work.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know.
Speaker A:And like, I shoot myself in the foot, really.
Speaker A:I should say.
Speaker A:I've never heard of that artist.
Speaker A:I just try and, I don't know, panic.
Speaker A:And in my head I try and make something up or try and be impressive in some way, but I've kind of let my guard down a bit and I just need to be myself.
Speaker A:It goes back to what you say a lot with your chats.
Speaker A:Being a creative, you just need to be yourself and not have any pretense there.
Speaker A:And that's the best way to be because it.
Speaker A:It's the only way you can be free, really.
Speaker A:You can't.
Speaker A:You can't hold up a Persona for.
Speaker A:It's just exhausting, isn't it?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The only way that if you're going to be out in the public, like you are doing exhibitions and stuff, the only way to really be is yourself.
Speaker B:Because that's what I think people really relate to.
Speaker B:They're not necessarily just related to the artwork, although that's like a very big piece of it.
Speaker B:Sometimes they might like it, but after meeting you, they know this is.
Speaker B:I want to help him.
Speaker B:I like him, you know, I want to support what he's doing in the world.
Speaker B:Not necessarily the biggest fan, but just the connection of you as an artist with that person could be enough to, like, show them that this is something that they want.
Speaker B:Even though, you know, art isn't always necessarily just the thing that gets people to buy from you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I've been thinking more about that side as well.
Speaker A:Especially with famous artists as well.
Speaker A:It's not people like owning their work or even a print of their work because of their name and who they are.
Speaker A:It's not amalgamation of their work and who they are as a person and to some extent their fame, isn't it?
Speaker A:You'll want to look good owning a David Hockney or something.
Speaker A:And a lot of it is a perception game as well.
Speaker A:Like, you talk about a lot in your work around the branding side and the whole package.
Speaker A:And it is.
Speaker A:Yeah, it is rarely just about the artwork you're buying.
Speaker A:The feeling.
Speaker A:How you feel about the person as well, the artist.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, that's like.
Speaker B:If you take somebody who's not like a huge artist and you get it in front of, let's say, like some famous galleries or whatever.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:And you say that this person is an artist and they're going to blow up and it could be like an elephant or it could be like a little kid and everyone's going to fawn over it just because people say that's what it is.
Speaker B:So it's not always about the art itself.
Speaker B:It's oftentimes about everyone's perception of the thing.
Speaker B:Like the.
Speaker B:The example of the banana being taped to a wall and being sold for $3 million.
Speaker B:Like, that's ridiculous.
Speaker B:Come on.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, obviously this artist thought of something interesting enough to where somebody wanted to buy it, but at the end of the day, it's just like a piece of.
Speaker B:It's a banana taped to a wall and some billionaire ate it.
Speaker B:Like, what is happening?
Speaker A:Yeah, I know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, it is, it's.
Speaker A:It reminds me of that guy called Beeple.
Speaker A:Beeple as well.
Speaker A:Who?
Speaker A:Did you hear about that?
Speaker A:He sold that NFT piece for 60 million.
Speaker A: I think it was in: Speaker A:Yeah, there's so much hype around that.
Speaker A:God knows how that happened, but yeah, it is with my work.
Speaker A:I don't just want it to be an empty perception game.
Speaker A:I have a lot of meaning around my work and kind of personal.
Speaker A:I put a lot of my psyche into it and want people to connect to it on that level as well.
Speaker A:I do realize the importance of having a brand and having, like having my name Slat is kind of.
Speaker A:I said it to someone before.
Speaker A:It's kind of shielding little old me from the world.
Speaker A:So there's this brand protecting me in a way, and that's kind of in front out there.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:I think it's quite a.
Speaker A:It's become quite a strong brand.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:And it's not like I sat down and said to myself, well, this is my brand and this is what I'm doing.
Speaker A:It's kind of evolved.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:One day.
Speaker A:So my name's Steven Light.
Speaker A:Steven Light Art.
Speaker A:I put it together into Slut.
Speaker A:And I was just, Just about to go to sleep and I was thinking, oh, that'd be quite a cool brand name.
Speaker A:And then I felt terrified and stupid about it.
Speaker A:I thought, no, I can't do that.
Speaker A:That sounds ridiculous.
Speaker A:And then another part of myself thought, well, if it.
Speaker A:If it feels scary, just go and do it anyway.
Speaker A:And then that stuck.
Speaker A:And I've just put it out there and it's, it's become something that I'm really happy with.
Speaker A:The name and the way I present it in the world.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's becoming more and more me, if that makes sense.
Speaker A:I'm letting, letting my guard down and I often find that, well, I've been guilty of.
Speaker A:When I write about my pieces on my website, that gets too, too, too art speaky.
Speaker A:So too much kind of jargon around it and I catch myself and I try and simplify it and write it in my own way because I think who am I actually trying to impress?
Speaker A:Am I just trying to impress myself?
Speaker A:Because I don't think that I'm very good at writing because I believed, believed that as a child and I failed English.
Speaker A:Am I just over complicating things?
Speaker A:So I've started stripping that layer back and just trying to put my personality out there as it is and not have any pretension around it at all.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think it's like oftentimes the simplest solution is the best solution.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like when you try to communicate with people using like impressive sounding words or whatever, it's harder to reach more people.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because you're trying to just make yourself seem more important than you are.
Speaker B:We're all just like on the planet doing whatever, like trying to survive.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And make the best use of what we have.
Speaker B:So it's like you can't just try to do stuff to impress people.
Speaker B:You just got to do stuff.
Speaker B:Stuff that's true to you.
Speaker B:And I think Slart as a name is great because it, it just kind of came to you and you were willing to experiment, which is, I think one of the biggest things we need to be as creatives is willing to experiment and see what people think and.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Determine whether or not we want to stick with it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I did originally, I did have Steve Light Art as.
Speaker A:As my brand name and it was, it was just kind of vaguely put together.
Speaker A:But since I created the Slut brand inadvertently, it's.
Speaker A:It's kind of grown and expanded and refined itself and it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's.
Speaker A:It's made it easier to create new content.
Speaker A:I think Bridget said in her post that when she works with people in your last podcast, when she works with her clients, she supports them in refining their voice and sharing their authentic voice in a way that makes their lives easier.
Speaker A:Because you're congruent and you're sharing from this sturdy place and it's not all over the place.
Speaker A:And that's how I feel.
Speaker A:It's like everything I share is from that place and it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's no.
Speaker A:I don't have to overthink anything.
Speaker A:It's just sharing an outpouring of an extension of who I am, really.
Speaker A:It's a lot easier, isn't it?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Making stuff up is hard.
Speaker B:That's why when you make up, when you write movies, TVs, books, whatever, it's.
Speaker B:It's hard because you gotta come up with it from scratch.
Speaker B:And if you're trying to pretend to be someone you're not, it becomes a lot more difficult.
Speaker B:So I think we can put it on Personas because Slart is like your Persona as an artist.
Speaker B:That's not entirely who you are.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because you have other interests.
Speaker B:You like to play video games, you like to do some other stuff.
Speaker B:That's not quite Slart, but it is like a Persona of you as an artist.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Speaker B:What kinds of stuff have you experimented with the most that have found the most success with.
Speaker A:What do you mean?
Speaker A:Art wise or promotion or anything?
Speaker B:Anything, yeah.
Speaker B:Let's do one of each or whatever comes to mind, I guess.
Speaker A:Well, I guess with my art style I was quite lucky because I was lucky to have a few people point out to me that I've got quite a unique style and I should stick with it.
Speaker A:So I kind of forced the style.
Speaker A:They were going back to forcing again and.
Speaker A:Well, it was part of experimentation anyway, but it was.
Speaker A:I was trying to make a style for style's sake.
Speaker A:So what I did was use Photoshop to create a kind of put a filter on photos.
Speaker A:So it just showed.
Speaker A:How do I explain it?
Speaker A:It's kind of, you know, like when you get negatives of a photograph, it just shows like the kind of shadows around the figure.
Speaker A:So you can see it's a figure, but it's in kind of black and white.
Speaker B:Like a silhouette kind of deal.
Speaker A:Yeah, kind of like a silhouette.
Speaker A:So I.
Speaker A:I did a painting of the shower scene from Psycho where the woman's screaming.
Speaker A:It looks really cool still and I like it.
Speaker A:And it's got like a red background and it's got her face in black and white.
Speaker A:And you can see the kind.
Speaker A:You can see who it is, but it's like the outlines and the shadows and stuff.
Speaker A:So I experimented with that for a bit, but it felt forced and I had to kind of try really hard.
Speaker A:And I didn't enjoy creating in that way as much, so I let my guard down.
Speaker A:And started painting in my own way.
Speaker A:And I was lucky enough, like I said, someone pointed out that I should stick with that because he gave me the example of Picasso.
Speaker A:Like, Picasso was really talented as a painter.
Speaker A:He could paint hyper realistic, realistically as like a 12 year old or something.
Speaker A:But then he found his own style and he had to almost unlearn what he learned.
Speaker A:And I, And I was quite fortunate to have my own style, which didn't take any effort on my part.
Speaker A:It was just what I like doing.
Speaker A:So I like to describe it as a kind of naive, outsider art style, kind of art brut, which is raw art in French, which the artist Jean Dubuffet coined.
Speaker A:He's quite a inspiration of mine because he started painting.
Speaker A:I think he started taking his art career seriously at 41.
Speaker A:I think he was.
Speaker A:I should know that.
Speaker A:Well, there's me thinking I should know everything again.
Speaker A:But he, he.
Speaker A:I think he was a wine merchant for years and then he wanted to have an art career.
Speaker A:So he really inspires me in that way.
Speaker A:But he also had his own raw style.
Speaker A:He experimented a lot, used cement in his paintings and even used butterflies in his paintings, which was strange.
Speaker A:But anyway, he.
Speaker A:He had his own style and I was lucky to have my own style.
Speaker A:So I'm sticking with that.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:Sometimes I find it quite.
Speaker A:I have to catch myself because I see someone who's a master painter and they paint really like realistically, hyper realistically.
Speaker A:I have to remind myself that that's not my style.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:And I have no inkling to learn how to do that.
Speaker A:And I think as creatives, we need to be honest with ourselves and stick to what we enjoy.
Speaker A:Because theoretically I could go on courses and learn how to paint like that.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:And I'm not discounting it as well, maybe I will someday if I have the inkling to.
Speaker A:But yeah, I don't.
Speaker A:I just enjoy painting the way I do.
Speaker A:And it reminds me of not comparing myself to Basquiat, but.
Speaker A:Excuse me.
Speaker A:He just painted so unabashedly.
Speaker A:And he didn't sit down and do really careful painting.
Speaker A:He just really got it out there on, painted on anything.
Speaker A:Bits of wood, doors, anything he got his hands on is just really raw expression.
Speaker A:And that's the way I paint.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:I don't have the patience or enjoyment to spend 100 hours on.
Speaker A:On one oil painting or a thousand hours or whatever.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I think I was very lucky to find my own style.
Speaker A:And experimenting, yeah, I think with experimenting with online platforms.
Speaker A:I think Substack has been the best place for me.
Speaker A:Definitely.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I've been on every platform before.
Speaker A:I'm so glad I'm off Twitter as well.
Speaker A:I don't go on there at all now.
Speaker A:But anyway, since I started writing on Substack, it took me a while to get used to it because I had the belief that I couldn't write.
Speaker A:Like I said, I failed English at school.
Speaker A:But it's been so rewarding posting twice a week for 18 months, expressing my thoughts around my art practice and sharing that with the world.
Speaker A:And that's evolved into a weekly post where I interview different artists with free questions.
Speaker A:And it feels like I said, it's not a huge.
Speaker A:I haven't got hundreds of thousands of subscribers, but it's a really nice close knit community and it's.
Speaker A:I've been able to express myself in writing with my pictures, showing my photos of my artwork and also some video work.
Speaker A:I've shared some podcasts on there as well.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:It's been a really nice platform.
Speaker A:Combine everything that I like creating on there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I'll definitely, definitely continue exploring that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Not sure what else to say on that really.
Speaker A:Anything you did, you want to ask around that.
Speaker B:I just think it's interesting to have or it's important to have one style that's you.
Speaker B:But also be willing to experiment.
Speaker B:So you're willing to experiment.
Speaker B:It didn't work out, but that doesn't mean you can't try something else.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And have that work.
Speaker B:So it's like just because you have a style doesn't mean you can't try to pull in more influences.
Speaker B:You just have to know what you want to do after you've done it.
Speaker B:So if you didn't like it, great.
Speaker B:Don't do it anymore.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You don't have to force yourself to do anything here.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because you're the artist.
Speaker B:You can kind of try to do what feels right to you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:We have to remind ourselves there's no rules in art.
Speaker A:You can literally create what you want.
Speaker A:What you're saying reminded me when I was, when I first joined Substack, I was like, I see a lot of people on there.
Speaker A:They're totally against any other social media.
Speaker A:And you see people saying, I left Instagram and all that.
Speaker A:I've done that for a while, but I've never left completely.
Speaker A:And the way I see it now, I kind of see the bigger picture where I'm just going to keep all the platforms open and find interesting Ways to share everywhere.
Speaker A:Like we were speaking about AI before.
Speaker A:I just use something called Opus Pro for my video posting.
Speaker A:So I.
Speaker A:Mm.
Speaker A:So on YouTube, I want to keep my YouTube going because it's.
Speaker A:I think it's a great way to share video and I'll do more with that.
Speaker A:I had the idea to share daily YouTube shorts on there from the content I have already.
Speaker A:So I use this program called Opus Pro where I upload uploaded interviews like this and it creates clips for you.
Speaker A:So you'd have say 50 clips from that, from a conversation that puts captions on for you and then I schedule that out.
Speaker A:And I think that is.
Speaker A:That's getting me out there in the world.
Speaker A:It's sharing my content in a way that's simple for me and it doesn't cause me any much extra work and it's not stressful and it can point people towards my sub stack as well.
Speaker A:I like to find kind of ways to leverage AI to support my.
Speaker A:To make my life easier as an artist so I can spend more time painting, basically.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:I think instead of saying everything is bad, we just need to figure out the best way to streamline things so that way we can work on the things we want to work on.
Speaker B:Because that's essentially what the purpose of AI is, is to help us streamline things to make them easier for us not to like, take away things.
Speaker B:Although it could.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:If we use it correctly, like you said, we can use something like Opus Riverside is what we're recording on right now.
Speaker B:And that also does clips.
Speaker B:And in order to find that myself, I would have to watch this whole thing over again and scrub through it to see where stuff happens.
Speaker B:But because you can tell AI, I want to look for the point where we talk about branding or whatever it is and it'll find that for you.
Speaker B:And that's great because it's doing the grunt work.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, that's brilliant.
Speaker A:It reminds me like I've gone through phases about around hating my smartphone as well.
Speaker A:And a smartphone is the same, isn't it?
Speaker A:It's just a tool to make your life easier.
Speaker A:But it can go the other way if you misuse it and it's.
Speaker A:And you can blame these platforms for getting you addicted on there.
Speaker A:I won't go into that now, but obviously that they.
Speaker A:They do make them addictive.
Speaker A:So you'll go on there and then make more money.
Speaker A:But it's also a tool, just like AI.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:You can be the master of it and not be the slave of the technology and Especially with AI, if you use it in the right way, you can.
Speaker A:You can save so much time to spend it doing the things you want to do.
Speaker A:And a lot of.
Speaker A:I guess a lot of writers are against using it for writing because it's.
Speaker A:People want to write and they don't want to use it.
Speaker A:But I'll use it to do grammar checks or make something clearer if it's not clearer.
Speaker A:But I guess a lot of people might think that you're using it to write something from scratch and then you just post out there and it's just rubbish that AI has made.
Speaker A:But if you're interacting with it as a human and using it as a co pilot, I think it can be pretty amazing.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's all about how you use things.
Speaker B:And I think even though people say using it to write is not art, I would say that it depends on how you use it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It's a tool just like anything else.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It can be used to do everything for you, but if you use it in the right way, it can help you think through things better than you could if you were just staring at the screen watching the little blinker, like, taunt you as you're trying to figure out what to write.
Speaker B:It helps you to just like, get the stuff out there, organize your thoughts, say them in a more precise way, just so.
Speaker B:Because it's a tool to help you do the things that you want to do, just like anything else.
Speaker B:And I think there's a funny thing, I just heard it the other day.
Speaker B:It's like when people started writing things, everyone was like, don't write things because you have to live in the now, the firmware or whatever.
Speaker B:But without that, where would we be now?
Speaker A:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker A:A lot of stuff was passed through stories, wasn't it, before.
Speaker A:Before books and everything.
Speaker A:But yeah, I think we need to embrace AI.
Speaker A:I see a lot of things on substack.
Speaker A:I don't know if you've seen this thing that went around.
Speaker A:Someone created these badges.
Speaker A:It said, made by human intelligence.
Speaker A:I thought it was really.
Speaker A:It's really lovely sentiment, but it's.
Speaker A:It's kind of saying that like you're saying putting anything that's not human or using technology as bad.
Speaker A:It's not that black and white.
Speaker A:And while I don't agree.
Speaker A:Well, I say I don't agree.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't like the idea of using image generation for my art.
Speaker A:I still use many other tools to make my life easier.
Speaker A:Things like coding.
Speaker A:I wasn't a Very good coder.
Speaker A:But with things like chat GPT now and there's many other things that you can create an app without any code.
Speaker A:It just, it's just an extension.
Speaker A:Excuse me, it's just a, like an extra useful tool.
Speaker A:Like if you, if you come up with an idea and you can't code, you have to get a coder to do it.
Speaker A:But nowadays you can do that yourself with these tools and therefore you can create something that you couldn't create before.
Speaker A:I think that's quite amazing and the possibilities are pretty much endless with that.
Speaker A:I've been looking into, I don't know if you've seen make.com where you can create these automations.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:I just find that really cool.
Speaker A:So what I'm experimenting with, posted on substack about it, which I haven't got around to finishing yet, is find a way that I can support substack writers just to generalize who don't like posting anywhere else.
Speaker A:They just want to write and publish a way to automate that.
Speaker A:So it takes the RSS feed from their post and then it shares it out to a wider network online that can be get them more awareness of their work and more people visiting their substack basically.
Speaker A:And I find that quite cool if that can be set up in a way that's simple and then all they need to do is write and then it spreads it out then.
Speaker A:Well, I think it's really interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:One thing is just recognizing where if you're going to automate something like that, recognizing the platform you're trying to automate it to and like tailoring it to that as opposed to just copy and paste.
Speaker B:Yeah, because every platform is like a different beast and if you do something on one and try to just copy and paste on the other, it's not necessarily going to work because.
Speaker B:Yeah, just for example, Instagram and TikTok, they're both technically working with like short video clips or somebody's talking about something.
Speaker B:But the people that watch things on each platform is completely different and the content that's pulled up is completely different.
Speaker B:So it's not necessarily a one to one scenario.
Speaker B:One other thing was I just wanted to shout out lovable.dev is a platform where you can have work with AI to build an app.
Speaker B:So if you're not a coder you can use that kind of just to test different ideas and build something.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's the one I was thinking about.
Speaker A:I forgot what it was.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's really useful.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm actually building an escape game because my wife and I sell these, like, creepy haunted dolls on Etsy.
Speaker B:And I'm just experimenting with the idea of building an escape room based on one of the dolls that we created, which is really fun.
Speaker A:That sounds cool.
Speaker A:You have to share that when it's finished.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a work in progress.
Speaker B:There's a lot of stuff when you're working with this type of thing where it'll make mistakes or there's a lot of little things that you have to fix and you just gotta go back and forth with it until you're happy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker B:Just briefly, I just wanted to talk about restarting your art career because before you weren't doing any art.
Speaker B:So how do you go from nothing to being in galleries or selling your stuff in your art studio and coffee shops and all that stuff?
Speaker A:Yeah, it's kind of weird thinking about that now, how it all came about.
Speaker A:It was kind of serendipitous the way it happened, which to me is always an indicator that you're doing the right thing.
Speaker A:So soon after, when I started drawing again, I thought of going to life drawing classes because I saw one locally, I've never done that before, and I just wanted to give it a go.
Speaker A:So I went to some life drawing classes and I asked them if they knew of any studio space.
Speaker A:I wanted some space where I could dedicate to my painting so I didn't make a mess at home.
Speaker A:The woman who run the group told me about this studio called Artsite, which was down the road, the one I'm at now.
Speaker A:And I emailed Sally, who is the founder of it, and she got back to me straight away and she said, she said, there's a studio free.
Speaker A:Someone's just moved out.
Speaker A:So this guy just literally moved out like a week ago or something.
Speaker A:Normally there's quite big waiting lists on there.
Speaker A:So I got there at the right time, got this studio, and then I kind of had the belief that I could.
Speaker A:I could make something of this because I've got a studio and I can.
Speaker A:It kind of felt more official having an art studio.
Speaker A:Not saying you have to do that, but in my case, it kind of felt more like I was.
Speaker A:Even if I wasn't there yet, I kind of felt like I could feel like an official artist.
Speaker A:So then they had an exhibition there, one I mentioned earlier, my first, first ever exhibition.
Speaker A:Then I had that and it, it went well.
Speaker A:I just had the inkling to, to search for more and then did a few more and then decided to set this one up myself.
Speaker A:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker A:The rest is history, really.
Speaker A:When it started reaching wider audiences was.
Speaker A:I decided to look for a curator.
Speaker A:So I found someone on LinkedIn.
Speaker A:I just contacted.
Speaker A:I only contacted two curators in London.
Speaker A:One got back to me and then I joined their roster of artists on their website.
Speaker A:And then she.
Speaker A:She supported me and was kind of my spokesperson.
Speaker A:So, for example, she took my work to Brussels last year to an art fair.
Speaker A:So she was someone supporting artists by selling the work on their behalf, so they didn't have to be there.
Speaker A:So doing all these things, having these different exhibitions, just grew my belief that I could actually do that.
Speaker A:Nothing to anyone listening, just go out of your comfort zone.
Speaker A:It's going to be uncomfortable at first, but just start getting comfortable displaying your work in public.
Speaker A:That reminded me, I have to go.
Speaker A:Like I said, I had a kidney transplant, everything's fine, but I just have to have checkups every four months, I think it is.
Speaker A:And there's a lady in there, I got chatting to her, she's a phlebotomist, takes the blood for my routine tests and it turns out she's an artist as well.
Speaker A:And we got chatting and every time I go back in, ask her how everything's going, and she was saying, oh, I've got my.
Speaker A:My first exhibition.
Speaker A:This was sometime last year.
Speaker A:So she.
Speaker A:From just talking to me, she actually took the plunge and started getting her work out there.
Speaker A:And I think it takes that feeling of being uncomfortable to get out there and just take that first step.
Speaker A:And, yeah, it feels weird reflecting on it because you're just.
Speaker A:As an artist, you're just doing your thing, aren't you, and just trying to get by and make your art and get it out there.
Speaker A:And I do reflect on what I do, but just thinking about how much I've done over the past.
Speaker A:It's only been four years since I had my studio and I've done more exhibitions than a lot of people.
Speaker A:I don't say that to show off at all.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:Just been quite fortunate in meeting the right and getting myself out there, not being afraid to feel uncomfortable.
Speaker A:And I think going through the social anxiety has made me stronger around that because I faced my fears before and it's.
Speaker A:And getting my art out there isn't quite as scary as I found people when I was younger.
Speaker A:Really, the idea of getting myself out there, I've got fairly comfortable with in exhibitions.
Speaker A:I've got to the stage where I'm not worried about what people think about my work.
Speaker A:It's just got to a happy feeling that someone's art isn't for everyone.
Speaker A:Is it like music?
Speaker A:You're not gonna.
Speaker A:Not everyone's gonna like the same music or me and you have different tastes in music.
Speaker A:That's fine.
Speaker A:It's not anything personal.
Speaker A:And as artists we kind of, we can be quite sensitive to that, that criticism.
Speaker A:But yeah, I definitely encourage anyone who, especially the people who don't feel like their art is good enough to get to put it in public, just to put it in public because you don't know who's going to see it and who's going to like it.
Speaker A:I like the Andy Warhol quote.
Speaker A:He said, don't think about making art.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:What was the quote?
Speaker A:Don't think about making art.
Speaker A:Just go and make art.
Speaker A:What is it?
Speaker A:I'm going to have to look it up.
Speaker A:Second.
Speaker A:Oh no, that's it.
Speaker A:Don't think about making art.
Speaker A:Just get it done.
Speaker A:Let everyone else decide if it's good or bad, whether they love it or hate it while they are deciding make even more art.
Speaker A:I made a painting of Andy Warhol with those words on it.
Speaker A:It's in my studio.
Speaker A:The thing is, I might dislike what I've created.
Speaker A:I'd say every time I create something I enjoy making it, but I might not like it at the end.
Speaker A:But then oftentimes those pieces have been very popular or if there's something I really like, other people don't like it.
Speaker A:And I've come to realise none of that mapping matters.
Speaker A:As long as you enjoy making it and you're getting out there in the world, that's all that really matters.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's all about one, being willing to put yourself out there like you were.
Speaker B:You didn't know that this art space was going to be available to you.
Speaker B:So that's one like serendipitous, like you were saying, moment and then the other is just like being comfortable with the uncomfortable because that's the only way we're going to learn or grow is to make ourselves uncomfortable.
Speaker B:Otherwise you're just kind of in the same place all the time, which is we can be fine.
Speaker B:But if you want to like push yourself and make more interesting things happen, you gotta just be willing to take that, the idea of uncomfort and just work with it.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:And that reminded me, actually, you probably don't know who this is, but there's this guy called Matt Berry who's.
Speaker A:He's a musician but he's also.
Speaker A:He's been in a Lot of comedy programs in the uk, so he's quite well known.
Speaker A:If a lot of people, if they saw him on the street, they'd know who he is.
Speaker A:So I went to his record signing last weekend and it was like, for an album launch.
Speaker A:And I had the idea in my head to invite him to my exhibition that's coming up in September.
Speaker A:And I was really nervous about it and I'd nearly talked myself out of it when he was doing a talk before the signing and he was talking about, first of all, we went to art college, which I didn't know, which put me at ease a bit.
Speaker A:But because he's interested in art, so there's a chance he might come.
Speaker A:But anyway, he was saying how he.
Speaker A:He had to play it cool in front of people who were more established than him when he was younger.
Speaker A:So that put me at ease as well because I look up to him as someone who's quite successful.
Speaker A:And anyway, yeah, so he did the talk and then I gave him a flyer for my exhibition and I was really nervous.
Speaker A:I tried the Play it cool.
Speaker A:I just said, I've got this art show coming up in September.
Speaker A:Be cool to see you there.
Speaker A:Then I walked off and I felt amazing afterwards.
Speaker A:Even though I was full of anxiety with the idea of going up to him, it's opened up, like, this new possibility that he might come along and it doesn't matter if he comes along or not.
Speaker A:That's not the point.
Speaker A:It's the realizing that your comfort zone isn't real and finding those opportunities where you can step outside because it is.
Speaker A:It does feel scary.
Speaker A:And it's a lot more comfortable to do the same things and feel safe.
Speaker A:But the feeling safe isn't.
Speaker A:Isn't a real comfort.
Speaker A:It's just what you're habitually used to.
Speaker A:And the fear isn't in proportion to what.
Speaker A:What it is in reality.
Speaker A:Every time I face those fears, amazing things have happened.
Speaker A:So, yeah, that was pretty cool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's a funny thing because, like, evolutionary, we're meant to be, like, in that state of panic because obviously we're trying to, like, avoid getting eaten by tigers and lions and stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that that fear that you feel is usually just like that part of us when we were way back before civilizations appeared just trying to protect us, but now it's like, kind of hindering us now that most of us are, like, in a comfortable and safe position.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:I do have a few more questions left.
Speaker B:Do you know any personally who also runs a standout creative business and what do they do to stand out?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So when I read your question before, I wasn't sure if.
Speaker A:When you say creative business, I didn't know.
Speaker A:Let me.
Speaker A:I'll just go out and say it.
Speaker A:So I have this friend called Beth for apps, and she runs this company called Raising Clarity.
Speaker A:Well, I say company, she's a solo creative, but she does coaching, basically.
Speaker A:And I wasn't sure if coaching came under that, but I wanted to talk about how she creatively expresses herself in the world as a coach.
Speaker A:So she's a deeply spiritual person, but also she's got a PhD as well.
Speaker A:So her style is quite.
Speaker A:It can come across as quite esoteric, but it's highly practical.
Speaker A:And she focuses a lot on time management and money, specifically on helping people kind of live their purpose.
Speaker A:If you put it into one sentence.
Speaker A:And like we're talking about multiple income streams, she's.
Speaker A:And followers.
Speaker A:She's.
Speaker A:She doesn't have a ginormous following, but she has a dedicated, loyal following.
Speaker A:And she has coaching groups, she has books, she has like a few small courses on her website.
Speaker A:And she.
Speaker A:A combination of all that and who she is and how.
Speaker A:How she comes across that is.
Speaker A:That is sustaining whole life.
Speaker A:And she's practicing.
Speaker A:She basically walks her talk, basically.
Speaker A:She lives a relatively simple life again, shares herself authentically.
Speaker A:And I think, yeah, she's really amazing example to follow.
Speaker A:And her work is amazing as well.
Speaker A:So it's Raising Clarity dot com.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Definitely stands out as how she's presented herself in the world.
Speaker A:Definitely.
Speaker B:I love when people think a lot about this question of what a creative means.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So anyone can be creative, which is one of the things.
Speaker B:And we all tend to think that, like, artists are the only people who can be creative.
Speaker B:But I think you can take creativity and apply it to pretty much anything, which is like the fun of it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:What is one book, extraordinary book, podcast, documentary tool that has made the biggest impact on your journey?
Speaker A:I would say I don't know the name of it, but if you have show notes, I can share the link.
Speaker A:I found this outsider artists documentary and it was presented by the head of BBC at the time, Alan Yentop.
Speaker A:So it was about a group of artists from all over the world, unrelated, but they.
Speaker A:The term outsider artist is basically untrained in the traditional art world, so hasn't gone to art college.
Speaker A:And I was watching a lot of documentaries when I was ill with kidney failure, and that one just really moved me because there's.
Speaker A:There's different artists from different backgrounds.
Speaker A:One was kind Of a group of.
Speaker A:I don't know how to word it.
Speaker A:They were outsiders in terms of.
Speaker A:They needed support with their mental health.
Speaker A:But they were, they were just creating art all the time, just non stop.
Speaker A:It was just really beautiful.
Speaker A:They were just.
Speaker A:They just had this environment where they were all living in the same place and they were supported with their mental health needs.
Speaker A:But they had.
Speaker A:They were just like, like allowed to paint on the walls and just create unabashedly all the time.
Speaker A:And I just thought it was just really beautiful.
Speaker A:And then there was this other artist called William Scott who was.
Speaker A:I think he's got quite big now.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:I'm sure he was in the MoMA in San Francisco.
Speaker A:His.
Speaker A:His innocent kind of demeanor.
Speaker A:I don't know why it brought me to tears but he was just like really kind of down to earth guy and he was, he was just painting these visions of San Francisco as like a utopian place because he was.
Speaker A:He didn't like how some of the areas were quite bad with crime and stuff.
Speaker A:So he kind of created his own world.
Speaker A:And after watching, I don't know, it kind of gave me permission to stick to my own path and be okay with being an outsider artist.
Speaker A:And also I got the realization, realization from that, that you, you're still an artist even if you're not creating anything.
Speaker A:Because I was too ill.
Speaker A:I couldn't even draw or anything at the time because I wasn't feeling great.
Speaker A:But by watching these documentaries and got the realization you don't.
Speaker A:You don't stop becoming an artist if you don't make anything.
Speaker A:You still got it inside of you.
Speaker A:And yeah, that, that was quite a poignant, quite moving documentary that is outside of the mainstream art world.
Speaker A:And probably most people I'm haven't seen that who are in that kind of world.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker B:What do you think makes a creative business stand out and what is one piece of advice you'd give someone based on your experience on how they can stand out?
Speaker A:I think we touched on this before.
Speaker A:It's like I see it a lot on Substack especially that people are just being themselves and they've got their own kind of quirky brand.
Speaker A:One example stands out to me is I think it's Beth Spencer's introvert drawing club and she does.
Speaker A:Is really cute.
Speaker A:Have you heard of her?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I would say they're kind of naive kind of illustration style drawings and she's built up a following on there totally being herself, just sharing exercises and yeah I think be okay, you're enough Basically, that's what I'll say.
Speaker A:You're enough to go out there and be yourself.
Speaker A:You don't have to become something else to get yourself out there and sharing what you do.
Speaker A:Every single person has something about them.
Speaker A:Everyone's different.
Speaker A:And you have all of your own life experiences and no one's had the same life as you.
Speaker A:And just by going out there, just by being brave and being out there and sharing is really is enough.
Speaker A:And you can do the whole branding thing with your logos and name and stuff like that, but that's only a small part of it.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Just like we talked about almost throughout the discussion is just be willing to.
Speaker B:To put yourself out there as yourself.
Speaker B:It's the easiest way to do it and it's the most likely way to resonate with people.
Speaker B:Because if we all did the same thing or like the same stuff or live the same life, it would be very boring and everyone would just be, you know, the same.
Speaker B:So the fact that you are who you are is what makes your art or whatever you're creating more interesting.
Speaker A:Yeah, it does, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The artists I love most are the ones who are just being themselves and sharing their own style.
Speaker A:There's some.
Speaker A:Someone else who comes to mind who.
Speaker A:You probably haven't heard of Margate in the uk, have you?
Speaker A:It's like.
Speaker A:It's like a seaside town, but it's become quite an arty town since Tracy Emin, who's quite a big British artist.
Speaker A:There's someone there called Margot in Margate, and she set up just like really simple illustrations of women and they kind of look very similar style, like outlines with simple colors.
Speaker A:But she actually got a retail shop, turned that into her own little gallery, and it's just become a massive success.
Speaker A:I'd like to see more of that in the world.
Speaker A:It's quite a bold move, like taking on a.
Speaker A:A space, but I think it's a move that pays off because you can.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like I said, just by being yourself and having the courage to go and go and do that in your own unique way.
Speaker A:Why wouldn't you go and visit that place?
Speaker A:I would go to places all day.
Speaker A:If there was an area with all these kind of independent shops with different artists in, that'd be so cool.
Speaker B:Maybe you can make it happen one day.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Can you give the listeners a challenge that they can take action on?
Speaker B:To start standing out?
Speaker A:I would say to artists, I say artists.
Speaker A:To anyone who doesn't think that they.
Speaker A:They can share their work, I'd invite you to Go and find somewhere local where you can display your work.
Speaker A:But in general, I would just advise anyone to go out of their comfort zone and share.
Speaker A:Share your work in a way that's uncomfortable and then let us know what you've done, because I guarantee it's going to.
Speaker A:It's going to be beneficial.
Speaker A:Even if the outcome of what you.
Speaker A:You shared didn't have the impact that you imagined.
Speaker A:By facing the.
Speaker A:The fear and going out of your comfort zone, that's going to open up things for you anyway.
Speaker A:So it's going to benefit you.
Speaker B:And what's the worst thing that can happen is what I always feel like.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:If it.
Speaker B:If it doesn't sell, okay, you weren't going to sell it anyways.
Speaker B:What difference did it make that you put it out there?
Speaker B:I mean, there's very few scenarios in which doing that will be harmful.
Speaker B:So just be willing to do that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Flart.
Speaker B:Stephen, it's been really awesome talking to you.
Speaker B:I think you got some valuable stuff for people.
Speaker B:I'm really looking forward to this zine project and seeing how it turns out.
Speaker B:So where can people keep up to date with you and what you're up to?
Speaker A:Yeah, sure.
Speaker A:The main place you can visit me on my substack.
Speaker A:So that's slart.substack.com awesome.
Speaker B:Yeah, thanks for coming on.
Speaker B:It's been a pleasure.
Speaker A:Yeah, thank you so much, Kevin.
Speaker A:It really has been a pleasure.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:All the best.
Speaker A:Take care.
Speaker A:Bye.
Speaker A:Bye.
Speaker B:Slart didn't just start making art again.
Speaker B:He found a whole new way to show up creatively.
Speaker B:His story proves that your creativity never really disappears.
Speaker B:It's always there waiting for you.
Speaker B:So what about you?
Speaker B:If you've been stuck wondering if it's too late or just need a push to get back into your creative flow, let's make it happen.
Speaker B:Head to the standoutcreatives.com and book a free strategy session.
Speaker B:Let's talk about where you are in your creative journey and where you want to go.
Speaker B:Because your art matters and the world needs to see it.
Speaker B:Until next time.
