20: From Poetry to Purpose: Creativity, Identity, and Sharing Your Voice with Felicia Iyamu
What if standing out means showing up fully and not shouting the loudest?
Felicia Iyamu’s creative journey has taken her from architecture and economics to Google, burnout, and back into the arms of poetry. Along the way, she’s been reflecting, writing, and reimagining what it means to live and work with purpose.
Her latest work, Poetry in Eden, explores identity, healing, and the unseen forces shaping our lives. In this episode, we talk about creativity, burnout, self-publishing, marketing, and what it really takes to share your work with the world in a way that feels true to you.
From Burnout to Breakthrough
Felicia didn’t set out to be a poet. She started in architecture. Fell in love with economics. Landed at Google. Then hit a wall.
Her doctor in Germany told her to stop working immediately. Burnout, officially recognized as a medical issue, forced her to pause.
That moment cracked something open. And was followed by a deep return to creativity guided by questions of identity, culture, and healing.
Try this: Revisit a creative idea you set aside. What if it’s ready now?
Bonus idea: Share that idea with a friend or write down a tiny first step you could take today.
Making Art Personal and Professional
Poetry isn’t just a passion project for Felicia. It’s her career.
She walks us through the steps, and surprises, of self-publishing, why she’s eyeing traditional publishing next, and how she thinks about the business side of creativity.
She’s not just writing for herself. She’s building work that connects personal insight with universal ideas. Felicia also talks about marketing with intention, community, and without waiting to be discovered.
Try this: What’s one thing you could do this week to share your creative work more boldly?
Bonus idea: Make a list of 3 people you could reach out to about your creative project—collaboration, feedback, or just a cheerleader.
The Power of Saying Yes
At the end of our chat, Felicia shares a challenge: say yes to invitations for two weeks. Not just social invites but creative ones too.
Because the unexpected paths often bring you back to yourself.
Try this: Say yes to something today you’d usually overthink.
Bonus idea: Keep a little ‘yes journal’ and track what you said yes to and what happened because of it.
Quick Recap
- Burnout can be the beginning of something new.
- Your creative work can hold personal meaning and professional ambition.
- Marketing = connection, not cringe.
- Saying yes opens doors you didn’t see before.
- You don’t need to wait for a perfect moment to begin.
Want to Bring Your Creative Work Into the Spotlight?
Felicia’s reminds us that your voice matters and there’s room for all of it.
If you’re building a creative business and ready to stand out (without selling out), let’s chat.
Book a free strategy session at TheStandoutCreatives.com
Spots are limited, so grab yours while they’re open.
Let’s make your creativity impossible to ignore.
Transcript
I don't know if it's like this in the US or in other countries, but burnout is an official medical issue in Germany, and my doctor immediately recognized I was burnt out.
Speaker A: That was in November of: Speaker A:What do you mean?
Speaker A:It's the end of the year.
Speaker A:This is not possible.
Speaker A:She said, you know what's not possible is you continuing like this.
Speaker A:And that was a big shock for me.
Speaker A:I thought I could crunch and crunch and crunch for the rest of my life.
Speaker A:Thank God I stopped that because I realized I don't like that.
Speaker A:I think I was just stuck in some cycle, some capitalistic cycle of performance.
Speaker B:Welcome to the Standout Creatives, where making money and creating meaningful work go hand in hand.
Speaker B:You're already passionate about what you create.
Speaker B:Now let's turn that passion into a standout business.
Speaker B:Marketing.
Speaker B:Your work doesn't have to be overwhelming.
Speaker B:It can actually amplify your creativity.
Speaker B:I'm your guide, Kevin Chung, and this podcast is your roadmap to creative business success.
Speaker B:I'll show you how to turn your unique talents into a business that truly represents who you are.
Speaker A:Let's get started.
Speaker B:Foreign welcome to another episode of the Standout Creatives.
Speaker B:Today I've on Felicia Iamu, and she is a writer, philosopher, curator who explores universal search for meaning through poetry, history, and geopolitical research.
Speaker B:Her work shines a light on identity healing in the unseen forces shaping our world, inviting readers to engage with big ideas in deeply personal way.
Speaker B:Her latest book, Poetry in Eden, is a poetic and philosophical journey through the cycles of history, generational trauma, and the pursuit of peace, blending intellectual, the intellect, and soul in a way that lingers long after the last page.
Speaker B:Beyond her writing, Felicia curates artistic spaces that celebrate plurality and thoughtful dialogue.
Speaker B:She extends those conversations through a podcast, Poetry and Eden, where she interviews experts and shares insights on philosophy, storytelling, and the human condition.
Speaker B:If you're drawn to her work that challenges, heals, and expands your perspective, Felicia's world is one worth stepping into.
Speaker B:That's a lot of amazing stuff.
Speaker B:Felicia, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got into that work?
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:How is my audio again?
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:I think the mic just disconnected, so let me just reset this up back.
Speaker A:But yeah, you.
Speaker A:The question was, how did I get into this work?
Speaker A:Correct.
Speaker A:Is that correct?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:So it's a.
Speaker A:It's a really good question, actually.
Speaker A:I have been writing poetry my entire life, and aside from writing Reading books is something that always filled me with inspiration.
Speaker A:I can remember as a young girl, just, like, having so many books by my bedside table in my backpack, discussing books with my parents, and eventually realizing that one day I want to create one of my own.
Speaker A:I didn't necessarily ever think I would write a poetry book, to be honest.
Speaker A:The first book I wrote, which is a manuscript that is still unpublished, it's over 300 pages, and it's a historical fantasy novel.
Speaker A:So my passion is actually writing historical fantasy.
Speaker A:I would love to get a traditional book deal for something like this, but in the meantime of figuring that out, I said, wow, I've been writing poetry my whole life.
Speaker A:It's my natural form of writing.
Speaker A:It gives me so much inspiration.
Speaker A:And so at the end of last year, I decided to put my first book of poems out into the world.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker B:Can you talk about some of your creative leanings when you're younger?
Speaker B:I know you said you like to write poems and read books, but what are some of the particular things that stick out to you from your childhood?
Speaker A:Yeah, I remember specifically being interested in authors, the authors who wrote the book.
Speaker A:I also specifically remember being interested in leaders who were also authors in some way.
Speaker A:It was just Martin Luther King Jr. S birthday in January.
Speaker A:And I remember the first time I read his speech or our teacher read his speech.
Speaker A:I have a dream.
Speaker A:And I remember feeling, like, some chills, some unbelievable inspiration, like, wow, this guy knows a lot of stuff to write something like this.
Speaker A:And I just remember reading that one over and over and over again.
Speaker A:And there was this, like, contest to write something similar to him.
Speaker A:And I remember every year there was this contest.
Speaker A:And, yeah, a few years in a row, I kept winning this one.
Speaker A:So I liked Martin Luther King Jr.
Speaker A:I stumbled upon Robert Frost's poems because he's from New England, so the Northeast.
Speaker A:And I stumbled upon some of his poems like Nothing Gold Can Stay and this secret.
Speaker A:I think the secret is also him.
Speaker A:Sometimes I think it's Thoreau, who's also a New England poet and philosopher.
Speaker A:But, yeah, Robert Frost stopping by woods on a snowy evening also popped up some years later.
Speaker A:And I remember, yeah, just being really inspired by his writing.
Speaker A:Maya Angelou changed my life because I think up until running into her writing, I only was reading men and didn't realize it.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's society for you, right?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think my jaw dropped to the ground when, like, she came up in class, and I was like, what a poet who's a woman and black.
Speaker A:It was just like, it Just changed my whole.
Speaker A:My whole life.
Speaker A:Who else?
Speaker A:I'd never read the Harry Potter books, actually, as a child or a teen.
Speaker A:I read them in my adult life.
Speaker A:They're amazing.
Speaker A:They're full of magic.
Speaker A:But no, J.K. rowling was never on my icon radar.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think that's a short, short list.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:What were your essays about for those contests or your poetry?
Speaker A:Yeah, I wish I could remember.
Speaker A:And I also wish I had them.
Speaker A:Like, we no longer have the childhood home that I grew up in and lost a lot of stuff in transit, but, yeah, you know, a 90s kid.
Speaker A:We also don't have, like, the Internet that is existing today where you can look anything up and it's probably saved into eternity.
Speaker A:So sometimes I feel sad about that.
Speaker A:Or then parts of me are like, maybe I should be happy about this.
Speaker A:In between time.
Speaker A:I grew up in between this burst of technology and this life of more analog.
Speaker A:But I believe they were poems.
Speaker A:It was like a poem and then an essay about the poem that I wrote.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I love the analog versus digital.
Speaker B:Like, I'm also in that space where I grew up.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:In the time where you knew life before the Internet and then life after the Internet.
Speaker B:And it's, like, completely different.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It's so interesting because the people who are growing up now never knew the life before the Internet, which is interesting.
Speaker B:I guess it's like any other new invention, like life before TV or life before radio, or like before writing even is.
Speaker B:Like all these different time periods where technology kind of shapes the way that the world goes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I love that point you make.
Speaker A:You're totally right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That could even be a whole TV series.
Speaker B:I'm sure there already is one.
Speaker B:We just gotta find where it is, right?
Speaker A:Maybe.
Speaker A:Maybe.
Speaker B:Did you continue the creative stuff growing up all the way until you decided you wanted to write this book in poetry?
Speaker B:Or did you let it go?
Speaker B:Or how did that work?
Speaker A:I've always been like, right brain, left brain, I would say.
Speaker A:And I've always loved to learn.
Speaker A:And in university I went in studying architecture.
Speaker A:That was what I originally wanted to study.
Speaker A:And I had this dream of opening in, like, an interior design studio.
Speaker A:This was my ambition for a lot of my life.
Speaker A:And then I took my first class, modern architecture.
Speaker A:I studied at Brown in Rhode Island.
Speaker A:Brown University in Rhode Island.
Speaker A:And wow, that was a nightmare.
Speaker A:That class, my goodness.
Speaker A:And getting all the supplies to build the models was incredibly expensive.
Speaker A:I was wondering, where is everybody getting all the moolah to pay for this?
Speaker B:A lot of rich people going Around.
Speaker A:I mean, Emma Watson was even in my class.
Speaker A:I graduated with Emma Watson.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:She was sitting behind me there in the class.
Speaker B:And you still didn't watch.
Speaker B:You didn't watch Harry Potter?
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:I didn't watch Harry Potter.
Speaker B:That's so funny.
Speaker A:I hadn't read them, but then I did later on.
Speaker A:I think it was like that year I decided to read it.
Speaker A:But yeah, like, this modern architecture class just kind of like messed it all up for me, which in a good way.
Speaker A:I felt like, whoa, this is completely unfair.
Speaker A:Like, we had a final exam, right?
Speaker A:I couldn't figure out, you know, how to make my model as.
Speaker A:Look as good as the next person because, you know, I just said, let me just get some the stuff I can afford and, you know, make it look the way it needs to look.
Speaker A:And I think I stayed up like that whole night and built the model.
Speaker A:I was so proud of myself.
Speaker A:And I don't know how everyone else got their model to this exhibition, but I had to walk mine over.
Speaker B:Oh, my.
Speaker A:God.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you know, all the other classes, I took them with.
Speaker A:With a bunch of friends.
Speaker A:But architecture was somewhere where it was just a little bit, I don't know, a different world, a little bit elite even.
Speaker A:Anyways, I had to walk my model over and a huge gust of wind came around the corner right when I was walking into that.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Completely destroyed by my entire model.
Speaker A:And actually the exhibition was like, you bring it in and the teacher walks around and then he grades it there in front of everyone.
Speaker A:And so this was a complete nightmare because even with all the photos I had on my, like, little BlackBerry of, like, what it really looked like, the teacher refused to give me a grade based off of the photos.
Speaker A:And he gave me a grade based off of the little sticks and Styrofoam.
Speaker B:Oh, God.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I have an older brother.
Speaker A:He went to Villanova.
Speaker A:He studied economics and political science.
Speaker A:He always wanted to be a lawyer.
Speaker A:He ended up being a lawyer.
Speaker A:And yeah, I was pretty devastated.
Speaker A:I couldn't figure out if I can.
Speaker A:Would continue with architecture.
Speaker A:And I remember him calling me and I was like, probably crying.
Speaker A:I. I think.
Speaker A:And he just was just like, why don't you just, you know, I really think you actually would like economics.
Speaker A:And I was, you know, he's my older brother, so I was like, don't you.
Speaker A:What are you saying?
Speaker A:I don't want.
Speaker A:And then like, secretly went and took economics class and the teacher was talking about the invisible hand theory, and I had way more Friends in that class, we all sat in the front and I remember being completely inspired.
Speaker A:I was like obsessed even.
Speaker A:I just fell in love with economics.
Speaker A:I loved the math part, the theory part, the application of it, the way that you could tie it back to real life.
Speaker A:And ended up silently switching from architecture to economics and then minored in religious studies because I always like to understand how people have beliefs and like how their beliefs shape their life.
Speaker A:And so yeah, I was economics and religion and the, you know, must have applied to bajillion jobs, I can't remember.
Speaker A:And the job I got was investment banking analyst at Goldman Sachs in between Houston, Texas and New York.
Speaker A:So nope, I didn't stick to the path.
Speaker A:My first job out, I mean I did three summers of investment banking internships and then yeah, that first job out was with Goldman.
Speaker A:What a nightmare.
Speaker A:Talking about not sleeping and really a mismatch of values.
Speaker A:I woo.
Speaker A:I mean that's a whole other episode that we can go.
Speaker A:But yeah, I learned a lot about myself and I learned a lot about people and then again I wanted to try something else.
Speaker A:I was completely burnt out.
Speaker A:I was actually like really shocked by the environment.
Speaker A:I think I was in complete shock.
Speaker A:I had never experienced anything like that in my life.
Speaker A:And at that point Google was touting unofficial model called don't be evil.
Speaker A:I remember thinking, hey, maybe that's my ticket.
Speaker A:That seems like that really aligns with what I believe in.
Speaker A:And so, and I had a friend working there at the time and he was, you know, pretty stand up guy and, and had strong values too.
Speaker A:And he ended up referring me and I did all the bajillion interviews and, and in the end, yeah, they hired me.
Speaker A:So I had two weeks to move from New York to San Francisco and then started at Google in marketing and spent eight years with them until June of last year.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I know you're now in Germany, so how did you end up there?
Speaker A:Yeah, during my studies at Brown, me and one of my best friends Sophia, we were taking German.
Speaker A:I took Spanish growing up and then was looking for something else and my friend Sophia was like, let's try German out.
Speaker A:We went to something called Kaffe Stunde Coffee Hour.
Speaker A:I remember thinking, man, like it doesn't, this doesn't sound like the, those movies with those, you know, bad guys speaking that harsh German.
Speaker B:This sounds the stereotypical.
Speaker A:Yeah, so this sounds a little bit different.
Speaker A:This has a little, little jingle to it and yeah, and it was complicated.
Speaker A:It kind of scratched a different part of my brain and yeah, Sophia and I buddied up and we studied German and then we studied abroad in Berlin.
Speaker A:And what was that?
Speaker A:I'm bad with the quick math.
Speaker A:That was like 13 years ago.
Speaker A:And yes, since then Berlin always has had a piece of my heart.
Speaker A:And I then with Google, while I, you know, I started in San Francisco, I actually spent majority of my time with them out of the us Moved to Singapore, actually one year in with them.
Speaker A:So was living in Singapore for three years with them and then moved to Berlin with them and was four years in Berlin with them.
Speaker A:And yeah, you know, you know, spent some time in Lisbon in the past year.
Speaker A:But yeah, back in Berlin, it feels, feels like home.
Speaker B:Can you talk about the international perspective?
Speaker B:So living in the US and then moving abroad, how that changed your perspective on the world and your creative work?
Speaker A:Yeah, oh yeah, totally.
Speaker A:You know, my parents immigrated to the US so they were not born in America.
Speaker A:My mother is from Jamaica and my dad is from Nigeria.
Speaker A:And so the Caribbean and West Africa.
Speaker A:They met in New York City.
Speaker A:My brother was born in New York City.
Speaker A:And then I was a surprise baby that came along two years later, surprise, there's another one.
Speaker A:But they were very happy because they had got a boy and they got a girl.
Speaker A:And, you know, I think most people really wish for this.
Speaker A:And, you know, I think some immigrants really try to assimilate, I think that's the word.
Speaker A:But like, maybe we were the opposite.
Speaker A:Like, my mom always has her Jamaican accent, my dad has his Nigerian accent.
Speaker A:Like, we grew up going to Jamaica every year because it's right.
Speaker A:Hop and skip away.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, a big family, lots of cousins, lots of tradition.
Speaker A:And so this kind of like, American way, like, was never really something I clung to.
Speaker A:Like, I felt like, yeah, American.
Speaker A:I don't even know if it really came into my consciousness until I left America, to be honest.
Speaker A:Which is interesting because I think it's the other way around for most people.
Speaker A:They really stand by this American thing.
Speaker A:And I had the opportunity with Google to leave, and that was right when Mr. Trumpy became president for the first time.
Speaker A:And I took the opportunity.
Speaker A:And yeah, it's interesting, like, as a writer living outside of the the US for all these now eight, nine years to have an outside look in and still have the context of what it means to, quote, unquote, be American.
Speaker A:And I find myself lately because I have this substack newsletter which is the same title as the book Poetry in Eden.
Speaker A:And I never used to really write so much about America or American politics until recently, where it Became very clear to me that actually this is my unique point of view.
Speaker A:Being able to understand what's going on in America while not still being there creates some type of.
Speaker A:I want to make a movie reference.
Speaker A:Some image just came into my mind.
Speaker A:I can't remember what film it is, but I can describe it and the feeling of it.
Speaker A:Whereas it's like you're watching something happening and you're there in the room with everyone and it's maybe kind of like you're a ghost.
Speaker A:You're there with everyone and they're, you know, living their life, doing their thing, and you can see it, but they can't see you.
Speaker A:Sometimes it feels like this.
Speaker A:I don't have another way to describe it.
Speaker B:You know, it's like an out of body experience.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:While being in the room, right?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker A:And so this is what it feels like often as an artist who's quote unquote American, living outside of America.
Speaker B:And you said this is what most of your poetry in Eden is about or just what you're thinking about right now.
Speaker A:Oh, poetry in Eden?
Speaker A:No, poetry in Eden has nothing to do with any type of these geographic locations.
Speaker A:It's a more spiritual and elevated philosophical poetry.
Speaker A:But the column I have that comes out every two weeks, which are thought pieces, I find myself writing more and more about America.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Can you talk about the, the moment where poetry and Eden came to you when you decided, okay, I'm gonna actually do this, I'm gonna release this book.
Speaker A: Yeah, it was in December: Speaker A:I. I had a really great job at Google.
Speaker A:I always had really great roles because I could analyze data really well and I have a human element to me.
Speaker A:I never lost my empathy.
Speaker A:I think in the end that bit me in, in the tail.
Speaker A:I don't know the right English term for it, but for a long time my empathy was something that actually helped my career.
Speaker A:And yeah, I didn't mind working very hard.
Speaker A:These were, I think, three characteristics of my career.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, I, I'm also a little bit of a health freak.
Speaker A:I love, you know, having my annual dentist checkup.
Speaker A:Never had a cavity, knock on wood.
Speaker B:And yeah, that's the most impressive feat that you've had.
Speaker A:I know, right?
Speaker A:And yeah, I like go to the doctor.
Speaker A:I work out a lot, I drink tons of water.
Speaker A:Anyways, so I went for just like a check in and my doctor was really worried doing all this blood drawing.
Speaker A:And then this is in Germany.
Speaker A:And yeah, it was just like 30 minutes total meeting.
Speaker A:But at the end she realized very quickly, I think.
Speaker A:I don't know if it's like this in the US or in other countries, but burnout is an official medical issue in Germany.
Speaker A:And my doctor immediately recognized I was burnt out.
Speaker A: That was in November of: Speaker A:And she said I had to stop working that day.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:I was like, what do you mean it's the end of the year?
Speaker A:Like, it's.
Speaker A:This is not possible.
Speaker A:She said, no, no.
Speaker A:She said, you know what's not possible is you, like, you continuing like this.
Speaker A:And that was a big shock for me.
Speaker A:I thought I could crunch and crunch and crunch for the rest of my life.
Speaker A:Thank God I stopped that because I realized I don't like that.
Speaker A:I think I was just stuck in some cycle, some capitalistic cycle performance.
Speaker A: nd so anyways, In December of: Speaker A:I made a timeline, and on the timeline, I wrote, it's time to.
Speaker A:To publish your poems.
Speaker A:It's time to publish my poems.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's when I decided, sorry, this is.
Speaker A: I said: Speaker B:I was gonna say that was very, very fast timeline.
Speaker A: So, yeah,: Speaker A:And yeah, I made the timeline, like, showed it to my.
Speaker A: Poetry in Eden, you know, in: Speaker A:And I was like, whoa, whoa, my gosh.
Speaker A:Like, I did everything on this thing, like, and I felt like, I don't know, really grateful to myself for making a pivot and quitting Google and that way of life.
Speaker A:To live in a way that feels good and right and happy.
Speaker B:Yeah, A lot of people will look at you, having worked at Google and say that's like the pinnacle of a career.
Speaker B:But I think if you work too hard at anything, no matter what it is, you're going to hit that point where you're.
Speaker B:You're working too much.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And life is not meant to be done that way.
Speaker B:I mean, biologically speaking, we were never meant to work like, the way that we're working.
Speaker B:I don't know, 40 years in a row.
Speaker B:Without stopping to worry about retirement and enjoying life after you've already worked to death and you're, like, already too tired to do really anything.
Speaker A:Oh, that's an interesting.
Speaker A:I love that you say that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I just think.
Speaker B:I mean, we're just meant as humans, as a species.
Speaker B:We just decided within the last, I don't know, like, 200 years that this is the way that we're going to live it.
Speaker B:We're working 40 hours every week and not taking vacations, and we're proud of our work.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It's like, okay, what else is there to this life?
Speaker B:Is that what it's meant to be?
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:You're exactly right.
Speaker B:So when you were considering your poetry book, where were all of the poems already written and you were just compiling them, or was it a process of also writing before completing it?
Speaker A:It's a good question.
Speaker A:I would say maybe three of the poems are poems I wrote as a teenager.
Speaker A:And so they mean a lot to me.
Speaker A:And I feel grateful that somehow between, again, this analog to digital life, they survived.
Speaker A:Not sure how, but they did.
Speaker A:So three of them.
Speaker A:I think it's like three of them.
Speaker A:Maybe even only two I wrote as a teenager.
Speaker A:Some of them were written, or a version of them had been written in my column.
Speaker A:Usually the format of my column is like, thought piece and then ends with an original poem by me.
Speaker A:And so some of the poems from that I put in the book, and then the rest just came from the flow.
Speaker A:And I wanted to make some distinct chapters as well.
Speaker A:So I thought the four elements were really perfect way to categorize the poems.
Speaker A:So the poems are.
Speaker A:Yeah, separated into four chapters.
Speaker A:Earth, wind, fire, water, and yeah.
Speaker A:The COVID designer is Ukrainian.
Speaker A:The interior design.
Speaker A:So chapter design.
Speaker A:She's from South Korea, living in Seoul.
Speaker A:I think she recently moved to Hong Kong, actually, interestingly enough.
Speaker A:And the design to be able to fit all the publishing requirements is a agency based in Portugal.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:So just like your life, there's an international aspect to your book, which is awesome.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I love to cover as many views as possible.
Speaker B:I think that's one important thing in creative work.
Speaker B:Not just to look at, you know, the people you're familiar with or surrounding you or the people that you know, but also to just go out there and see what other perspectives people have to offer.
Speaker A:Yeah, totally.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I always fear I'm.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I could end up in an echo chamber.
Speaker A:And for me, that's another type of a matrix.
Speaker A:I need to rewatch that movie because I, yeah, I love to use that analogy.
Speaker A:I love that film.
Speaker B:Yeah, there's interestingly enough, if you're, if you pay close enough attention or if you hear people talk about it, there's so many philosophical elements to that series and it's just not what they're advertising these movies to be.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:It's like they're advertising it to be like these cool action movies.
Speaker B:But obviously there's like deeper meaning throughout all the films.
Speaker A:Yeah, totally.
Speaker A:I think, you know, something about film is like they're creating stories, but I sometimes I feel like they're like, in terms of like quantum reality or something like this.
Speaker A:I think maybe some of the best film directors and writers maybe are even pulling something out of some quantum reality and that's why it affects people so much and shapes their perspective.
Speaker A:But most of my favorite movies are love, love stories anyway.
Speaker A:The Matrix is an outlier.
Speaker B:I think one interesting idea, I think it was Rick Rubin in his book the Creative Pursuit where he talked about all ideas are out there and they're just looking for a vessel to find the way to get out into the world.
Speaker B:So they're existing in some capacity out in the ether.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And we as artists and creative people are just using that inspiration from what's already existing and just giving it an avenue to be spread farther.
Speaker A:Oh, I like that.
Speaker A:It reminds me of Elizabeth Gilbert's book Big Magic and she says that inspiration is like the tale of a cat.
Speaker A:Like, and it's like not the sweetest imagery because I really don't think you should grab the tail of a cat.
Speaker A:But she does that.
Speaker A:If you don't grab it, it will just pass you right by on to the next person.
Speaker A:So it's, it's.
Speaker A:I love that you bring this one.
Speaker A:I hadn't heard, heard that of him and I don't, I haven't read that book yet, so maybe I will.
Speaker B:Oh, it's very good.
Speaker B:It's not like a strictly story driven or like through line book.
Speaker B:It's just random thoughts on creativity just like spouted out.
Speaker B:They're not really organized in a way that you would expect the flow of a book to be.
Speaker B:They're just like, you can turn to any page and figure out how this applies to your creative journey in this moment.
Speaker A:Oh, cool.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'll check it out.
Speaker A:Give me a reminder of the name later.
Speaker B:Yeah, I did read Big Magic many years ago, so I think it's come up a few times recently and I think it's time to revisit it Because I remember being very inspired by it.
Speaker A:Ooh, okay, great.
Speaker A:So you, you'll read that one and I'll read the other one?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker B:Can you talk about the process of deciding that you're going to make the poetry book and then the actual release of it?
Speaker B:So how did you go from okay, I know I'm going to do this to actually getting it?
Speaker B:I know you worked with a lot of people in that process to.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, I even still feel overwhelmed, like thinking about it.
Speaker A:Still have no idea how this book is out.
Speaker A:No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What's the process?
Speaker A:There's a lot of steps.
Speaker A:I'm not even sure I could summarize them.
Speaker A:Let's see.
Speaker B:Or if you were gonna do an another book, what would that process look like?
Speaker B:What do you think the steps would be to go from idea to complete a project?
Speaker A:I hope I have a book agent and a.
Speaker A:And a deal for the next ones.
Speaker A:But yeah, I can do it.
Speaker A:The process, basically you need the manuscript, of course.
Speaker A:So the fully edited, polished work of what will be inside the book then.
Speaker A:And this is the self publishing, so putting the book out into the world on your own accord process.
Speaker A:So yeah, manuscript is complete, then it needs to fit specific requirements.
Speaker A:So that means being very clear on what format it will be published in.
Speaker A:Will it be published as an ebook?
Speaker A:Will it be published as a paperback?
Speaker A:Will it be published as hard copy?
Speaker A:Will it be published as all three?
Speaker A:For me, I don't like hard copy poetry books.
Speaker A:That's a very specific thing to me.
Speaker A:So I have an ebook in a paperback.
Speaker A:So these are the two formats that I chose.
Speaker A:And then I said, okay, ebook in paperback.
Speaker A:Like there are specific specs that cover the spine and the back cover need to be a specific way.
Speaker A:And the back cover also needs to be written and was written by me.
Speaker A:And so I worked with this design team in Portugal to ensure that the COVID was finalized in a way that I felt really suited my soul and that the spine and back cover also stood out in this way.
Speaker A:I got an endorsement for the back cover.
Speaker A:I think that this always is helpful for people picking up the book.
Speaker A:The endorsement is actually not even like some book reviewer magazine or an author or anything like that related to writing.
Speaker A:My endorser is a sustainable luxury fashion brand, so that is also really unique.
Speaker A:And it's Pakistani, German, Meher Kikalia.
Speaker A:That's the name on the back of the book with the endorsement.
Speaker A:And once those elements were finalized, then the specs are made to ensure that all the borders and the page numbers and the font size and the colors and everything meets the requirements of all the distribution platforms.
Speaker A:And there's tons of.
Speaker A:From Barnes and Nobles to Waterstone in the UK to Amazon to Foyles to the list goes on and on.
Speaker A:My book is available globally, so there's actually tons of distribution channels.
Speaker A:And so I this again, Nuno Designs, it's there inside of the book.
Speaker A:Helped me make sure all the space specs were industry standard.
Speaker A:Then the book is ready to be uploaded and I did a pre order timeline where people could pre order the book.
Speaker A:And then the launch of the book for me was the end of November.
Speaker A:And yeah, it launched in the end of November.
Speaker A:Somehow it was number three globally in the general poetry category for 30 days.
Speaker A:I don't know who the heck was looking for.
Speaker A:That's good marketing, huh?
Speaker A:And yeah, I don't know.
Speaker A:It's not a lucrative business, I'll tell you that.
Speaker A:But it feels nice.
Speaker A:And I realize I don't need much in life anyway.
Speaker A:And is that the whole process?
Speaker A:Let me see if I missed anything.
Speaker A:Yeah, Tracking everything and all the dashboards and the marketing.
Speaker A:I'm still doing the marketing.
Speaker A:Maybe I'll do the marketing for the rest of my life.
Speaker A:Isn't that crazy?
Speaker A:But yeah, I think that's the process.
Speaker A:I hope that answers it.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:So every book that you see anywhere, there's so many elements that go into that thing.
Speaker B:It's not just like a writer writes the thing and it's like immediately ready.
Speaker B:There's a million steps.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And marketing is just even just a very small part of that, that very large process.
Speaker B:Can you talk about some of the stuff that you've done to market your book?
Speaker A:Yeah, I requested a review by Publishers Weekly, which is known as the Book Bible, the Book Bible magazine.
Speaker A: It's been around since: Speaker A:It's been around a long time.
Speaker A:Publishers Weekly.
Speaker A:And yeah, I hadn't.
Speaker A:You know, this could go really bad.
Speaker A:You know, as a debut author, they grade your book cover, they grade the editing, they grade the overall marketing copy, they grade illustrations and then they give a review of the book.
Speaker A:Could have been a really bad review, but they gave me all A's.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:Yeah, I got a B in editing.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know.
Speaker A:I got a B in editing.
Speaker A:And the review was exactly what I wanted people to take away from the book.
Speaker A:So this became one marketing element.
Speaker A:I still haven't received the hard copy magazine, but because the review was so good, I Was then in the January.
Speaker A:So last month's Publishers Weekly magazine.
Speaker A:I've had a lot of people emailing me, some people finding me on Instagram and finding the book in this way.
Speaker A:So this has been an interesting marketing channel.
Speaker A:I do a poem of the week on my Instagram and each of the poems are now, of course, from the Poetry in Eden book.
Speaker A:And since I've gotten into like modeling now, I have a lot of photo shoots and I have a lot of photos.
Speaker A:So in that way I can curate my feed to show this kind of aesthetic while also sharing the poems.
Speaker A:So the photography of me is there with the poem of the week.
Speaker A:And yeah, I, you know, want to continue every form of marketing that I can.
Speaker A:Had some Amazon ads running as well, had someone find me also on Instagram from this and said they loved the book and yeah, I'll continue.
Speaker A:It's a lot to be done, a lot of live readings.
Speaker A:This has been good.
Speaker A:I sent some copies to influencers.
Speaker A:No, not a single one of them posted it.
Speaker A:So that was a little bit.
Speaker A:I mean, even I sent one all the way to Singapore and that was a really big ticket shipping cost.
Speaker A:And I don't even know if she Reddit but tried the influencer strategy.
Speaker A:This one didn't go so go so well.
Speaker A:But that's all right.
Speaker A:And yeah, more to come.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think the important thing is that you're trying things because you.
Speaker B:No one really knows what's going to work.
Speaker B:There's a lot of luck in some elements and then there's a lot of timing.
Speaker B:You know, there's.
Speaker B:There's so many things that go into marketing that you have no real control over.
Speaker B:So I think the important thing is to just try as many things that you're comfortable with as possible, as long as there's some sort of strategic element to it.
Speaker A:Oh, I like that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think you're right because that.
Speaker B:Who knows?
Speaker B:That book review could have gone wrong if.
Speaker B:If they didn't like it.
Speaker B:It could have been sent to somebody else that was reviewing it and that could have been like the.
Speaker B:Between an A and, you know, B, like, so you never know.
Speaker A:Totally, totally.
Speaker B:And that person could be having a bad day and be like, oh, no, I'm just gonna do everything bad.
Speaker B:It's just like everything is a crapshoot, I think.
Speaker B:So it's just being intentional about willing to be marketing your book all the time.
Speaker A:Yeah, I like that.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's a nice perspective.
Speaker A:I've been in the weeds, so that's refreshing perspective.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Can you describe how you plan to get your historical fiction into like traditional publishing since you've done self publishing, why you'd want to make that change and what you plan to do to get that done?
Speaker A:Yeah, I want to be a career author.
Speaker A:So I think the best is to have an agent.
Speaker A:And yeah, this takes time, I think.
Speaker A:J.K. rowling, for instance, what did she query?
Speaker A:Like over 250 people and only one came back with a yes.
Speaker A:And if that one didn't give her the yes, we would have never all seen Harry Potter.
Speaker A:So like I really should, you know, put more time into this, you know, between running the social media myself, writing the column, doing some, you know, side works, I haven't put enough energy into querying.
Speaker A:But I do have a big tracker.
Speaker A:And yeah, the process for that is to literally use the world wide web to find an agent that is looking for the type of book that I have.
Speaker A:So they would need to be interested in historical fiction and they would need to be open to unsolicited queries.
Speaker A:A lot of agents close their doors halfway through the year, so that's also makes it pressing.
Speaker A:Some, yeah, are a lot of.
Speaker A:Yeah, so it's really a match making process and then some luck.
Speaker A:Like they must get thousands and thousands of people emailing book ideas to them and yeah, they choose one and it has.
Speaker A:Even if the book is great, if there's another book on their list that it feels too similar to what's being pitched, then maybe that's the reason why one person's getting rejected.
Speaker A:So it's a little bit of a crapshoot.
Speaker A:But yeah, you know, with authors, like sometimes they just die with their, their books.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Their manuscripts unpublished and then it's like a sad thing to say, but you know, it's a possibility too, I hope.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:And why did you decide that you wanted to get this traditionally published?
Speaker A:Yeah, because I think that this series could go on forever and that it can change the next generation's way of existing and heal some parts of the world.
Speaker A:Like on one side the story is incredibly good in my perspective and I'll give the summary in a second.
Speaker A:And then on the second side it, you know, if it's a six book series, if I were to self publish the first book, according to most publishing law, then I would need to self publish all of them on my own.
Speaker A:So the best is to get someone from the start to publish them because then they need to publish the whole series and I think that's the best that would Be the best.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, the book right now is called Icarus.
Speaker A:That's the title I have.
Speaker A:And the first book is a boy from North Korea and a girl from East Berlin during the Cold War are dreaming of freedom and two portals appear to them and they both immediately walk through them.
Speaker A:One portal leads to.
Speaker A:To a quote unquote paradise, and the other portal leads to an ice cold punk rock underworld.
Speaker A:They both must get through these places before the actual devil takes the most potent hope away from the boy, because the boy has the most potent hope in the world.
Speaker A:But unfortunately, by the end of the first book, the actual devil does take this most potent hope away from the boy.
Speaker A:And now the devil has the ability to retell history, past, present, and future.
Speaker A:And so that's the end of book one, and then book two.
Speaker A:The actual devil is rewriting World War II.
Speaker B:Very interesting.
Speaker B:That's just a sneak peek for when you get that book published.
Speaker B:So hopefully if you keep up with Felicia, you'll find out what happens, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:Well, I know you have to go.
Speaker B:It's late over there.
Speaker B:So we'll wrap it up with a few final questions.
Speaker B:Do you know anyone personally who also runs a standout creative business, and what do they do to stand out?
Speaker A:Yeah, I know a bunch of people, but actually, people in the wine industry have been.
Speaker A:This was like the first thing that popped into my mind.
Speaker A:Friends in the wine industry, Somalias.
Speaker A:And I don't know, this has really been enticing me, the way their dedication, their knowledge about the.
Speaker A:The craft and the process.
Speaker A:This for me is really stand out.
Speaker A:I've been feeling really inspired by my sommelier friends and the natural wine businesses that they're running.
Speaker B:That's the first time I've heard that.
Speaker B:So that's kind of interesting.
Speaker B:That reminds me of Jira Dreams of Sushi.
Speaker B:I don't know if you've seen that one, but that's a very detailed perspective of the craft of one of the most famous sushi makers in the world.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:It sounds familiar, but I'd love to check it out.
Speaker B:Yeah, definitely check that one out.
Speaker B:If you haven't seen it, what is one extraordinary book, podcast, documentary, or tool that's made the biggest impact on your journey?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:On writing by Stephen King.
Speaker A:That helped me finish the.
Speaker A:My novel.
Speaker A:I think I need to reread it again.
Speaker A:It appeared actually on my desk at work in Singapore after I told a colleague that I was trying to finish my book.
Speaker A:And I had never read a book so fast than that.
Speaker A:On writing Book.
Speaker A:And shortly after finishing it, I finished the first draft, of course course of my novel.
Speaker A:It changed my life on Reddit.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:By Stephen King.
Speaker B:I'm in the middle of it and that just gives me a reminder to finish it.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:I'm listening to the audiobook version of it.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:But it's.
Speaker B:It's very good.
Speaker B:I just need to get down and finish it.
Speaker B:I'm switching between a bunch of books right now.
Speaker B:One of them is on Play, interestingly enough.
Speaker B:That has nothing to do with this.
Speaker B:But it's just an interesting idea to look into how Play affects all of us.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like inner child and.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's one thing that helps with the survival of species.
Speaker B:Interestingly enough, because you learn how to interact with others in a way that shows that you're not threatening and you wanna, you know, this is an element of fun and play.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Versus always being on the attack or on the run.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker A:Oh, I like that.
Speaker A:Wow, you sound like you have the best book recommendation.
Speaker B:Give me one second, I'll pull up the title.
Speaker B:I forget exactly offhand, but it is called Play how how it Shapes the Brain, Opens the Imagination and Invigorates the Soul.
Speaker B:And that's by Dr. Stuart Brown.
Speaker A:Oh, I like that a lot.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:Of course.
Speaker B:What do you think makes a creative business stand out and what is one piece of advice that you give based on your experience to help people stand out?
Speaker A:Marketing.
Speaker A:Marketing.
Speaker A:Marketing, huh?
Speaker A:Yeah, I think that's what.
Speaker A:That in the end is what makes things stand out.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Marketing.
Speaker A:Copy the branding like every Olympus and being willing to just push it with high quality and push it to the limit.
Speaker A:I think in this day and age, that's the secret sauce.
Speaker A:Not so secret.
Speaker A:Takes a lot of work.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's one interesting perspective that I think comes from your like financial and business background.
Speaker B:Because a lot of artists and creative are opposed to the idea of marketing.
Speaker B:Even though marketing is just a way to get your thing in front of people who want to consume your thing.
Speaker B:So it's not necessarily a bad thing.
Speaker B:It's just like how do you position yourself to do that?
Speaker A:I can understand that.
Speaker A:This hesitancy, if that's a word.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It can make.
Speaker A:It can feel icky.
Speaker A:Even this poem of the week, as much as I love the idea of it, every time I have to post it, I'm like, oh, another photo of me and my poem.
Speaker A:Like, you know, it can feel a little bit icky, all this self promotion and marketing.
Speaker A:But yeah, it's necessary.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, it's the only real way to get your work out into the world.
Speaker B:And if you want your stuff to have an impact on as many people as possible, that's the best way to do it, is to figure out how to make marketing something that's exciting and fun and playful, that element of play again, into using that in a creative way, since you're a creative person to get in front of the people who want it or need it.
Speaker A:Yeah, you're right.
Speaker A:I like that too.
Speaker B:Can you give the listeners a challenge so they can take right now to start standing out?
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:For the next two weeks, as long as it's safe to do it.
Speaker A:Whatever invitation someone gives, you have to say yes.
Speaker A:And I think they'll be surprised where this leads them and how it pushes their boundaries.
Speaker A:Sometimes I do this for a couple of days and I grew up doing dance, for example.
Speaker A:I could give an example.
Speaker A:I grew up doing dance and then I stopped for many years and I was doing this kind of yes challenge.
Speaker A:I like to do it when I'm in somewhere new and a friend said, hey, I'm gonna do this split specific class.
Speaker A:Do you want to come?
Speaker A:And I was in my yes kind of week.
Speaker A:So I said yeah.
Speaker A:And I didn't think I would like it.
Speaker A:And it's literally the dance class.
Speaker A:Like one year later, I'm, I'm still doing and obsessed with this like heels dance class.
Speaker A:So yeah, it's a maybe sounds a little bit like a strange challenge, but as long as it's safe and you know, always respect your own boundaries.
Speaker A:But I say try the two week yes challenge.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Sometimes you don't know what's gonna happen until you accept ideas into your life.
Speaker B:So sometimes you have to say yes even though it's uncomfortable as long as, like you said, it fits within your idea of safety and you know, something that you feel good doing.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:Well, Felicia, this has been really awesome talking to you.
Speaker B:Can you tell people where they can keep up to date with your work and find out when your novel comes out?
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:For all things about my work, please Visit my website feliciamu.com Again, that's Felicia iamu.com F E L I C I A I Y a m u.com and my all of my things are there.
Speaker A:From poetry and Eden, the book to.
Speaker A:To the podcast to my bi weekly column to my modeling portfolio, to Icarus, the novel.
Speaker A:Everything can be found there.
Speaker A:And if anyone wants to work with me one on one or contact me, there's also a way to do that@feliciamu.com awesome.
Speaker B:Well, yeah.
Speaker B:Thanks again, Felicia for coming on.
Speaker B:It's been a pleasure and I'm sure we could have talked for a lot longer, but it's getting late over there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm so happy to to spend this time with you.
Speaker A:I feel grateful.
Speaker A:And also, you know, check out my Instagram also feliciamu and I look forward to being in touch.
Speaker B:All right, thanks again.
Speaker A:Bye Bye.
Speaker B:Thanks for listening to this episode of the Standout Greetings.
Speaker B:If you're feeling stuck, let's chat and see how we can help you start standing out instead of burning out.
Speaker B:You can sign up for a free strategy call@thestandoutcreatives.com if you want to keep up to date with everything I'm working on, including interviews, essays and upcoming projects, head to standoutcreativebusiness substack Hub.
Speaker B:And if you have any thoughts on this episode or just want to check that, you can follow me on Instagram Standout Creative Business.
Speaker B:Thanks again for tuning in and as always, lean into your creativity and curiosity.
Speaker B:I'll see you again on the next episode.
